David Cameron's speech on Europe

[TW]Fox;23615999 said:
I think all this post does is sum my point up quite nicely.

But as an aside, which aspects of your day to day life are now worse as a direct result of apparently 'being told what to do by Europe'? And which parts are better?

For me personally there numerous arguments in favour of the EU and numerous considerable benefits of its membership. But there are also numerous arguments against the EU and many aspects of membership which disadvantage us. As a result I honestly don't know, currently, which way I'd vote.

Many of those who know 100% which way they'd vote tend to have 'arguements' that don't stand up to scrutiny.
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The countless laws and regualtions affecting the familiy business (Agriculture) whilst other, mainly Eastern EU countries carry on regardless of the laws, especially animal welfare.
The mass immigration putting strain on local services and jobs - With Bulgarians and Romanians yet to come.
The fact our money is going to something that none of us have had a vote on
 
bam0 said:
That presumes that the rest of the EU is even interested in having negotiations on this subject.
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Very true, although it's hard to see them just letting us walk without at least some discussion.

Also, by the sounds of it, we're not alone and some members might join our side of the discussion.
 
[TW]Fox;23615024 said:
I can't think of anything worse than a referendum.

The majority of votes cast will be based on little if any actual research and mostly kneejerk and uninformed opinion often gathered from sections of the press. I find it genuinely scary that the future of our country may be decided in this way.
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Unlike general elections?
 
Can we become a US state instead and throw out our political system and parties? The British Empire is dead and our country and culture us unrecognisable from 30 years ago, I feel I have more in common with the American people now than 90% of the people I walk by in the street. There is no national pride as there is nothing to be proud of.

I will still be voting Conservative next time, not because I particularly like them or Cameron but because they are still the best out of a very very bad bunch. Cleggers is a light weight wet blanket and the two Eds are laughable morons.
 
JBod said:
Can we become a US state instead and throw out our political system and parties? The British Empire is dead and our country and culture us unrecognisable from 30 years ago, I feel I have more in common with the American people now than 90% of the people I walk by in the street. There is no national pride as there is nothing to be proud of.
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Just lol.
 
bam0 said:
That presumes that the rest of the EU is even interested in having negotiations on this subject.
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They would rather negotiate then lose the UK completely, we pay in too much money, are too large a trade partner and have too much international influence for them to not suffer through out departure.

If southern Europe wasn't turning in on itself then we would have a more difficult time getting anywhere, as is the UK is one of the largest financial and trade hubs in the world and not something easy to lose. There are also other matters such as security and intelligence where the EU would like to keep access to our resources, the EU has very little political and military might, areas where we (are / potentially) play large roles. If the UK did leave then it would be a massive blow to international confidence in the EU and may produce a lot of ripples.

We negotiate better terms, they keep the club together and everyone wins.
 
dalin80 said:
They would rather negotiate then lose the UK completely, we pay in too much money, are too large a trade partner and have too much international influence for them to not suffer through out departure.

If southern Europe wasn't turning in on itself then we would have a more difficult time getting anywhere, as is the UK is one of the largest financial and trade hubs in the world and not something easy to lose. There are also other matters such as security and intelligence where the EU would like to keep access to our resources, the EU has very little political and military might, areas where we (are / potentially) play large roles. If the UK did leave then it would be a massive blow to international confidence in the EU and may produce a lot of ripples.

We negotiate better terms, they keep the club together and everyone wins.
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Well summarised, for all the fluff the EU likes to play with it will always fall down to the core cogs of it all working, strong economy's and political might to back it up.

Germany and France have both admitted they do not want to lose the UK's abilities which is reassuring that there's a grand plan of the EU operating under one flag should the need arise.
 
dalin80 said:
They would rather negotiate then lose the UK completely, we pay in too much money, are too large a trade partner and have too much international influence for them to not suffer through out departure.

If southern Europe wasn't turning in on itself then we would have a more difficult time getting anywhere, as is the UK is one of the largest financial and trade hubs in the world and not something easy to lose. There are also other matters such as security and intelligence where the EU would like to keep access to our resources, the EU has very little political and military might, areas where we (are / potentially) play large roles. If the UK did leave then it would be a massive blow to international confidence in the EU and may produce a lot of ripples.

We negotiate better terms, they keep the club together and everyone wins.
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Only downside is our position (as a Tory legacy) is that we cannot renegotiate our position without leaving then going back in because we never really signed up to the whole process.

If we didn't play the "anti-europe pro-British" card at every turn over the last 30 odd years of government we might have had a better chance of negotiating a better position in the EU by being a leading member... Something all governments have been criminal in not doing for a while now because of this belief we can be the "reluctant partners".

Our attitude towards Europe means the club wont give us the terms we want and we will be forced to accept nothing or worse than what we have conditions if we "poo where we eat" on this issue.
 
[TW]Fox;23615024 said:
I can't think of anything worse than a referendum.

The majority of votes cast will be based on little if any actual research and mostly kneejerk and uninformed opinion often gathered from sections of the press. I find it genuinely scary that the future of our country may be decided in this way.
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This...
 
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