David Cameron's speech on Europe

CREATIVE!11 · 23 Jan 2013 at 19:08

Stop letting in foreigners to claim benefits,

Have system like Australia, you have to work 3-5 years first before being eligible. All I really have a gripe with EU for.

Biohazard · 23 Jan 2013 at 19:27

I think a few heads at Better Together HQ just went pop today.

Mickie · 23 Jan 2013 at 19:56

The euro doesn't work. They let terrible country's join which opens the doors to a load of people we can't really afford to support in this country.

They have more power in the court than our own. We should govern our own country. Not Europe. It was also set up after the war to mainly bring peace. We currently don't need it and trade will go on with Europe even if we aren't in it.

The country wants out

Biohazard · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:03

Why do we have to wait until 2017 or 2018 for this vote? The separatists have wanted this referendum all their lives, why don’t they just get on with it now?

While they run scared, UK businesses will be crippled by uncertainty and foreign investors won’t want to invest in the country.

[TW]Fox · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:06

Biohazard said:
Why do we have to wait until 2017 or 2018 for this vote? The separatists have wanted this referendum all their lives, why don’t they just get on with it now?

They have no mandate for such a thing nor any real hope of getting it through a coalition government?

sigma · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:09

Judgeneo said:
IF the conservatives win a majority

I think it applies if there is a coalition too.

To be honest, I don't know enough to decide whether or not we should be in Europe.

Quite how we think that the rest of the population has a clue about this topic is mind-boggling. I doubt most people even know what a referendum even is. Whilst I know what it is, I'm not entirely sure just how binding the result is? From what I gather the result can be ignored anyway?

Muffin` · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:18

sigma said:
From what I gather the result can be ignored anyway?

Yep

RDM · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:19

sigma said:
Quite how we think that the rest of the population has a clue about this topic is mind-boggling. I doubt most people even know what a referendum even is. Whilst I know what it is, I'm not entirely sure just how binding the result is? From what I gather the result can be ignored anyway?

Referendum I this country are not legally binding. However ignoring their results would be very politically damaging.

scorza · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:20

Biohazard said:
Why do we have to wait until 2017 or 2018 for this vote? The separatists have wanted this referendum all their lives, why don’t they just get on with it now?

While they run scared, UK businesses will be crippled by uncertainty and foreign investors won’t want to invest in the country.

This is what I thought when I heard Cameron announcing the policy change, basically all the arguments he used earlier against a Scottish referendum on independence apply to a UK referendum on "independence".

So we could have a situation where Scotland leaves the UK and possibly joins the EU, while the rest of the UK leaves the EU and the prime minister wants Scotland to stay in the UK and leave the EU.

Biohazard · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:23

[TW]Fox;23619098 said:
They have no mandate for such a thing nor any real hope of getting it through a coalition government?

Labour had it in their manifesto for 2005 that they would put the matter to a referendum, before running away and doing it in private.

There's precident for doing whatever you like as a politician party or Government, like raising tuition fees like some of the Coalition partners.

They had no mandate for that either.

Anyway, it was made more in jest than seriousness. I'm not as stupid as those who voice such opinions.

Biohazard · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:27

scorza said:
This is what I thought when I heard Cameron announcing the policy change, basically all the arguments he used earlier against a Scottish referendum on independence apply to a UK referendum on "independence".

So we could have a situation where Scotland leaves the UK and possibly joins the EU, while the rest of the UK leaves the EU and the prime minister wants Scotland to stay in the UK and leave the EU.

Or a situation where Scotland stays in the UK an clearly also wanting to remain in Europe (as per the joint Unionist argument so far) and is then wrenched out of it by Tory euro-sceptics. Fantastic promise of certainty.

But wait, there's more..

European culture will no longer be ours. We won’t be able to watch The Killing or Borgen or the Eurovision Song Contest if we’re a separate country. We’ll have to stick to morris dancing, The Only Way Is Essex and parochial, inward-looking programmes like EastEnders.

Will ex-pat Britons be given the vote? My aunt lives in Europe which means her half-Scottish sons will have their EU citizenship and identity ripped from them. Surely they must therefore be entitled to a say in what happens? And given this will affect the whole EU, shouldn’t everyone in the EU be allowed to vote on whether Britain should leave?

Perhaps Fox could answer that last sentence.

craptakular · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:36

So why is Europe so bad?

sigma · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:43

Oxy said:
So why is Europe so bad?

Equally, why is it so good?

Some facts (informed, not FACTs) for both arguments would be nice.

craptakular · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:44

All that impacts me is not having to worry about passport control when going to Europe.

delta0 · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:45

Biohazard said:
Or a situation where Scotland stays in the UK an clearly also wanting to remain in Europe (as per the joint Unionist argument so far) and is then wrenched out of it by Tory euro-sceptics. Fantastic promise of certainty.

But wait, there's more..

European culture will no longer be ours. We won’t be able to watch The Killing or Borgen or the Eurovision Song Contest if we’re a separate country. We’ll have to stick to morris dancing, The Only Way Is Essex and parochial, inward-looking programmes like EastEnders.

Will ex-pat Britons be given the vote? My aunt lives in Europe which means her half-Scottish sons will have their EU citizenship and identity ripped from them. Surely they must therefore be entitled to a say in what happens? And given this will affect the whole EU, shouldn’t everyone in the EU be allowed to vote on whether Britain should leave?

Perhaps Fox could answer that last sentence.

If Scotland leaves the UK then they will leave the EU anyway. However travelling within Europe will be unaffected as it was before the EU. You don't even need a visa for the US now (and many other countries, Japan etc..) and Europe will be even easier. Also eurovision is based on the continent and we are not leaving that as far as i am aware?! The Swiss are a good country to look at with regards to the position the UK will move to.

One · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:52

Leave the EU and become another state of America, no thank you. As we are such a huge part of the EU it would be a bit like the split of Oasis with neither member having a chance of their former success, both just fading into the side-lines. Together, however, and it's a strong team, sure there are a few bumpy patches and sometimes there will be disagreements but that's what being part of a union is about, shared glory and minimised pain. You think the global economy would be better if Germany, the UK, and France weren't obliged to inject money into Spain, Greece, Portugal, and Italy? They'd have collapsed and taken halve of Europe with them, we'd probably be in a depression as a result of the fallout.

[TW]Fox · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:55

Biohazard said:
But wait, there's more..

European culture will no longer be ours. We won’t be able to watch The Killing or Borgen or the Eurovision Song Contest if we’re a separate country. We’ll have to stick to morris dancing, The Only Way Is Essex and parochial, inward-looking programmes like EastEnders.

What sort of rubbish is that? The Eurovision song contest is for European nations, not EU members? Unless you think the Ukraine is in the EU?

Will ex-pat Britons be given the vote? My aunt lives in Europe which means her half-Scottish sons will have their EU citizenship and identity ripped from them. Surely they must therefore be entitled to a say in what happens? And given this will affect the whole EU, shouldn’t everyone in the EU be allowed to vote on whether Britain should leave?[/I]

Perhaps Fox could answer that last sentence.

Clever

Biohazard · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:58

delta0 said:
If Scotland leaves the UK then they will leave the EU anyway. However travelling within Europe will be unaffected as it was before the EU. You don't even need a visa for the US now (and many other countries, Japan etc..) and Europe will be even easier. Also eurovision is based on the continent and we are not leaving that as far as i am aware?! The Swiss are a good country to look at with regards to the position the UK will move to.

We won't. But that's another well trodden topic..

sigma · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:58

Oxy said:
All that impacts me is not having to worry about passport control when going to Europe.

I don't think anyone actually knows the majority of the pros and cons.

Tbh, I can't be arsed to research. Far more interesting things to do.

StriderX · 23 Jan 2013 at 20:59

Oh god...we don't need another debate about Scotland and the EU, it...no.

Skip it please.