RIP Chris Kyle

[Craterloads]

Or commissioning genocide. If you are referring to the first gulf war. I still most certainly would not be defending such a leadership regime.

I apologise for my mistake, but my above comment still stands.

NEXT.

No it doesn't lol, the whole context was defending our country and freedoms, what has above got to do with our security and freedoms? Ironically that woman was in fact defending her country and her freedoms.

Next

 

[Skillmister]

Holding a grenade would certainly dispel her from the innocent civilian list.

If I was holding a grenade threatening people I would be expecting to be shot.

Next.

So these countries should just let the more "powerful" ones just wade in and do as they please? I somehow doubt you would just roll over if another country decided they liked the look of your village.

Well, if I had previously killed several thousands of people by authorising flying a plane into a building, yes.

NEXT.

Huh? Did you just change topic or something?

 

[Castiel]

What legal judgement? Calling them murderers? You were correct, the killing is exempt in law so it is not murder. I think you well know it is the act of killing that most people have issue with and are choosing the wrong word to convey their distaste or worse.

Aye, war is pretty grim business most of the time.

Why is this thread here if not to put a soldier on a pedestal? Commending his lifetime achievement of 100 kills? I don't wish to glory in any persons death which is why it is important to point out that what this man did is not a good thing just because his profession was a soldier. And far too many in Britain seek to make that connection without question.

Is it? I think that people recognise him from his book and fame and have simply shown respect in his death. No more so than the myriad of other threads that do the same for a myriad of others in the public eye.

You are not the only person with military experience and knowledge so to simply label everyone else ignorant isn't good enough. I know the consequences and benefits of military action and I believe there is an alternative to most of the action we have undertaken. And if more people had the bravery to not join or even resign from the armed forces then the government could not have went to a war that 1 million people protested against before it happened.

Indeed I am not, however I didn't label everyone, only those showing their ignorance of what soldiers do with their statements.

I am not wrong about carrying out orders without question - this is in fact trained in, believe in your superior officers, justify your actions by saying you don't have the full picture, have trust in the intelligence that you don't know. They already accept the moral that it is acceptable to kill when they sign up, what questioning are people like that likely to do after that? Not much in my opinion.

You are wrong as every soldier is also taught to understand thie personal responsibilties with regard local and international laws and to question any order that counteracts the proscribed international laws and the Rules of Engagement as applicable to the theatre in which they are engaged. It is a requirement under LOAC.

 

[Shayper]

Sorry? Are you comparing the sniper in question to Hitler? I would have thought he had been shooting at armed men who would probably shot him or his comrades had the have the chance.

I was agreeing with you using sarcasm, sorry for not clarifying

No it doesn't lol, the whole context was defending our country and freedoms, what has above got to do with our security and freedoms? Ironically that woman was in fact defending her country and her freedoms.

Next

Think about it. If someone commissions genocide, then they are clearly a madman. What's their next plan? Launch missiles against other countries? Wipe out another race? If you can't see the link between the two there is no point discussing this further with you.

So these countries should just let the more "powerful" ones just wade in and do as they please? I somehow doubt you would just roll over if another country decided they liked the look of your village.



Huh? Did you just change topic or something?

That's not what I meant at all! Please don't twist my words.

As for the second point, I admit I made a mistake, which I rectified in a further post

 

[Skillmister]

I didn't twist your words.

You say she is dispelled from the innocent civilian list for holding a grenade. If that grenade is being held because there are troops invading where she lives she deserves to die? Please..

 

[Shayper]

I didn't twist your words.

You say she is dispelled from the innocent civilian list for holding a grenade. If that grenade is being held because there are troops invading where she lives she deserves to die? Please..

No, I said she is presenting herself as a target.

If David Cameron was to authorise and force killing every polish man in the country tomorrow, and subsequently America decided to invade us, I certainly wouldn't be defending my country.

 

[Castiel]

Who cares what her affiliations were, she was an Iraqi citizen defending her country. Just like your mother or sister may have had to do if the French decided they wanted to invade tomorrow. She was in the right.

You do not know that, she could have easily been an foreign fighter or member of a regional warlord faction. It wasn't as black and white as White hats v Black hats....which is why the whole thing was bodged by the US administration.

This is not about you, Kyle on the other hand was simply a killing machine while you had other duties, you are not comparable.

I was a Royal Marine Sniper and member of the BRF in Iraq. In some ways we are directly comparable. Don't assume that a soldier simply has one task. Kyle fought in Fallujah which saw some of the heaviest fighting and running firefights so that is where the differences lie.

The majority of the country did nit want war, we questioned the evidence at the time. Why didn't you and your buddies? You shouldn't have been their in the first place which is blatantly obviouse, resulting in you always being the aggressor and there for in the wrong.

Much of this was done in hindsight and many soldiers also were not convinced of the WMD position, but at the same time while it is easy to sit at home or protest in the street about something that might not be true, in the field you have no such choice...you have to be sure. What would have happened had the Armed Forces refused to go and then Iraq did have some form of WMD. You forget that Hussien and his administration were the ones who consistantly refused to comply with weapons inspectors and given his history in the region and with his own people it would have been irresponsible to simply ignore what was seen by all but a few as being a clear and present danger.

Whilst I appreciate once you were there and in defending yourself you had to kill, I can't condem that ad simply an act if survival.

You have the right to voice your opinion, killing is not to be glorified whatever the justification and I agree with that, however I disagree with some of the judgements being made about people personally here, including Chris Kyle.

 

[Maximum Triceratops]

Holding a grenade would certainly dispel her from the innocent civilian list.

If I was holding a grenade threatening people I would be expecting to be shot.

Next.

It may have being one of those novelty lighters, she might have being trying to light her shisha bong?

 

[Derek W]

I thought Christianity taught forgiveness to all men?

Dont bring religion into this, thats a sure fire way to start a war!

 

["andy"]

Crazy thread. I don't get why people feel so for or against the guy really

He's a man doing his job just like most of us here are and even if he was really good at is job then I'm sure plenty of us here are good at our jobs

A total meh from me . Infact I'm amazed I even bothered posting

R.I.P

 

[Shayper]

Craterloads, I shall reiterate:

You have claimed that the woman was an innocent civilian. Therefore the burden of proof is on you.

Where is your evidence to support your claim?

 

[Jason2]

Dont bring religion into this, thats a sure fire way to start a war!

What has forgiveness got to do with not approving of something? We can forgive someone for their actions, but it doesn't mean we suddenly approve of their behaviour.

 

[Gackt]

Didn't take long for the trolls to arrive. He done what was asked of him by his country and did it very well.

But does that make it morally justifiable?

 

[Shayper]

It may have being one of those novelty lighters, she might have being trying to light her shisha bong?

Dont bring religion into this, thats a sure fire way to start a war!

To be honest, he's been proved to be nothing more than a troll in the other thread

 

[Shayper]

But does that make it morally justifiable?

Missing the point. Just because what he did may or may not have been morally justifiable does not mitigate the fact that he does not deserve to be disrespected in such a way.

 

[Castiel]

But does that make it morally justifiable?

That depends on the justification and the ethical framework in which they are made.

 

[elmarko]

Slightly off-topic, but I've never understood "respecting the dead" - how exactly does one respect someone who no longer exists?.

You know what I'd like, respecting the living (part of that respect involves not killing them in morally dubious wars).

No matter how you gloss it, this was a man who was paid to kill other people in a nation they invaded - it's hardly what I'd call honorable & most certainly not the kind of thing we should be glorifying.

On a side note to another post, a computer game is fictional entertainment roughly based on real events - it's not the same as the glorification of an actual human who really did kill over 100 people.

 

[EyepodI]

So what happens if Afghanistan/Iraq is left unchecked, things like 9/11 and 7/7 happen.

There would be a lot less smack on the streets for 1

 

[EyepodI]

Sick puppies hero worshiping a killer.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

The majority of the country did nit want war, we questioned the evidence at the time.

I don't think that under 2% of the population making a statement really allows you to draw the conclusion that the majority wanted anything.

I was there in the London protests, TBH a lot were the "professional protesters" that go to any and every protest that challenges the establishment. It seemed more of a carnival than a genuine protest to a lot there.

Oh and by the way despite being in the protests I supported the war. Now your asking why I was there, walking along with what seemed to be quite a few of the dregs of humanity? Well I had to be in London that day, and I needed to unfortuantely follow a similar path to the protest, I ended up in it, and it was a struggle to actually get out of it as the Police were quite tightly controlling the flow.

I find the people who do not support any military action nothing more than blinkered, its very easy to be safely in the UK with our high standard of living and a police force that will come to your aid when needed. I bet they would have a very different view of things if they were genuinely in fear of their lives on a daily basis.