Poundland Girl Wins Forced Labour Ruling

Where did he ever say that? :confused:

In any case, what makes minimum wage inherently fair?

Personally at least, for the sake of experience, I would be more than happy to take an upaid/lowly paid job at a place I really wanted to work. I would value that experience a lot more than whatever small amount I was paid.

That being said, I do realise that I am in the fortunate position to be able to do that.

I discussed the minimum wage near the start of the thread, it is certainly not a zero sum idea, but it seems to be another of those things that gets defended without critical analysis of the pros and cons much of the time.

There is nothing wrong with supporting the idea of the minimum wage, but the impact on jobs volumes and employability for some cannot be ignored as so often happens. I would much rather have a system where the minimum wage is not needed to be honest, but we currently have a conditional entitlement system which makes it necessary.
 
id be a bit cautious as to how much use 3 weeks of work in a poundland would be on someones cv as lets be honest now as soon as anyone see's it they will know that person couldnt find a job for a year and had to be nudged in to doing it.

not saying everyone would see it that way, but having watched agencies and hr departments first hand work there magic when splitting up cv's i wouldnt be surprised if a lot of people who have no other experience or qualifications besides poundland would end up with their cv in the bin.

when i worked as an assistant manager in retail and we needed 2 part time sales assistants we ended up using a agency (care of head office and hr) and all they sent us where graduates cv's. when we asked why only graduates they said "well you dont want dummys do you" got to love attitudes like this.

You have just described a big issue with the minimum wage in a crowded job market. when you have an artifical floor in the employment costs, you prevent people devaluing their labour to get the job over someone more qualified.
 
He said it doesn't matter whether you work 9 hours or 30 hours for the same amount of money (in my case £56). In one of those situations minimum wage does not apply.

I'd take a lowly payed job at somewhere I want to work too. Stacking shelves in a supermarket isn't one of those places. Besides, other than leaving less hours for actual employees what benefit would working an extra 21 hours a week shelf stacking actually give? I'd imagine all the experience you're going to get would be done in about 1 shift anyway.

Calling the exact same job as the next guy "work experience" doesn't mean it's fair to pay peanuts for it.

Perhaps all the experience you get in how to do that particular job can be gotten in one shift, but if it is a company you want to work in, or even otherwise, if it is a big chain like Tesco and you'd like to eventually end up in that sort of company, spending time gives you an idea of such a company operates and that is something you can bring up in an interview, which perhaps another candidate can't.

If you are there for the experience, and he is there for the job, then it is experience.

I've been to places for work experience and do a lot of what someone else would be doing. It's only for two weeks, but I don't, and nor do I expect, to get paid for that. Similarly, have had people come in once or twice for experience for a week where I am now and I give them stuff that I would be doing, but wouldn't expect to pay them for it.
 
You have just described a big issue with the minimum wage in a crowded job market. when you have an artifical floor in the employment costs, you prevent people devaluing their labour to get the job over someone more qualified.

why does someone have to devalue themselves because they dont have a education, the example i gave shows how some people (many on here) have a very high opinion of themselves because they have a uni education.

we actually filled the two posts by going to the job center and interview half a dozen people, the 2 guys we took on had high school education and nothing more, yet did very well. one of them even got promoted to assistant manager after a year. all without a uni education.

the biggest issue with no min wage is company's will take advantage of people who are looking at the bottom rung of the ladder when it comes to jobs and they will offer as little as possible. i remember the good ole days before min wage came in and i even worked for 2 weeks for £2 an hour, i took it at the time as i needed a job so couldn't be fussy, but honestly now how could someone even live on that. you cant live on the min wage if your not living at home without state hand out's.

as for saying the min wage over values what some people do, could you elaborate what jobs they are that you think arnt worth £6.19 an hour ??
 
id be a bit cautious as to how much use 3 weeks of work in a poundland would be on someones cv as lets be honest now as soon as anyone see's it they will know that person couldnt find a job for a year and had to be nudged in to doing it.

not saying everyone would see it that way, but having watched agencies and hr departments first hand work there magic when splitting up cv's i wouldnt be surprised if a lot of people who have no other experience or qualifications besides poundland would end up with their cv in the bin.

when i worked as an assistant manager in retail and we needed 2 part time sales assistants we ended up using a agency (care of head office and hr) and all they sent us where graduates cv's. when we asked why only graduates they said "well you dont want dummys do you" got to love attitudes like this.

Agreed that it might not carry much weight as such, but compared to someone who doesn't have that, it will help. Also, if you do learn a fair bit from it about the company in general, ways of working etc., rather than just your particular role, then it is something to talk about at interview or on the application. It may not be worth loads, but it could show that you learnt more than you were expected to, have an interest in such things etc. and put you above someone who lacks the same.

Re. the graduate stuff - it is a bit of a hard one. While I agree that not being at uni doesn't automatically mean you're dumb/incapable of going to uni, but depending on where it was, and what the role is for, it does show a certain level which someone without it would have to demonstrate in other ways. Of course if the role has nothing to do with it, then it shouldn't make a difference.
 
the biggest issue with no min wage is company's will take advantage of people who are looking at the bottom rung of the ladder when it comes to jobs and they will offer as little as possible. i remember the good ole days before min wage came in and i even worked for 2 weeks for £2 an hour, i took it at the time as i needed a job so couldn't be fussy, but honestly now how could someone even live on that. you cant live on the min wage if your not living at home without state hand out's.

I agree that that is what will likely happen. However, if I had a choice between working at say the bottom rung of Google for £2, or working in an unrelated field of interest for £6, I would choose Google. I want the experience of that more than I want the cash, and if I'm willing, and the company is willing, it is annoying that the state says I can't. As said before, I am in the fortunate position that I can afford to do it and I realise that others can't, but it is annoying to me all the same.
 
I agree that that is what will likely happen. However, if I had a choice between working at say the bottom rung of Google for £2, or working in an unrelated field of interest for £6, I would choose Google. I want the experience of that more than I want the cash, and if I'm willing, and the company is willing, it is annoying that the state says I can't. As said before, I am in the fortunate position that I can afford to do it and I realise that others can't, but it is annoying to me all the same.

I agree with you essence, in that if possible I would choose to take the position that I thought would benefit me the most, job satisfaction does count for a lot. But I would imagine for the majority having the luxury of choosing the £6 vs £2 would never be a real choice. People work for money to pay the bills and little else, especially at the lower end of the spectrum.
 
Dolph, who do you work for?. I live in Plymouth, so I'll shoot them an email seeing if I can get some work there under this 'work scheme'. I will freely work 30 hours a week for £71 to prove not everyone is a work shy layabout.

e-mail in trust.
 
I agree with you essence, in that if possible I would choose to take the position that I thought would benefit me the most, job satisfaction does count for a lot. But I would imagine for the majority having the luxury of choosing the £6 vs £2 would never be a real choice. People work for money to pay the bills and little else, especially at the lower end of the spectrum.

True enough, which is whom the scheme is designed to protect (the minimum wage that is). Just annoying that I couldn't contract out of it if I so desired. Not going on a rant that it needs to be abolished or the like, just expressing an annoyance.

In my role as intern, due to internal company policies, I couldn't continue on as an intern past 12 months (I was getting paid) in that team. The exerperience was amazing and the company really liked me, so I offered to stay on and not get paid in a separate team if that was possible. They couldn't do this due to the employment laws etc., but also couldn't afford to pay me as the team had a much smaller budget.
 
In my role as intern, due to internal company policies, I couldn't continue on as an intern past 12 months (I was getting paid) in that team. The exerperience was amazing and the company really liked me, so I offered to stay on and not get paid in a separate team if that was possible. They couldn't do this due to the employment laws etc., but also couldn't afford to pay me as the team had a much smaller budget.

See that's one area where the system should be changed to enable people to avail themselves of such opportunities. If they are prepared to do a deal with Poundland for instance, why not any company that has a position that is more relevant to qualifications, aspirations, etc. I'm sure if the govenment said we'll put £70 if you match it, would create many more properly focused positions that people would want to be in.
 
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Wow...all the mistrust in the low paid, whilst the high flyers are the ones that do the thieving (for the most part).
 
Race to the bottom is never good. There are always people willing to work for less than I am but I suspect very few of them would work to the quality I do.
 
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Wow...all the mistrust in the low paid, whilst the high flyers are the ones that do the thieving (for the most part).

Yep like panorama on Barclays "secret" department for "Asset management" , 100 people employed in it making billions in profit for the company when they employ like 27000 people, these tiny 100 seemed to make huge chunk of profit.

They called it "Asset" management but in normal lingo, TAX EVASION YAY!!

OMG BENEFIT SCROUNGERS CRIPPLING THIS COUNTRY...

I'm going to say it now next person who complains about benefits destroying the uk or some ******** I PAY MY TAXES DERP DERP, you are almost comic like the redneck caricature who blames GOVARNMENTTT you just remind me of a south park character and you are a total and utter complete retard and should unplug yourself from all the bull you read in the papers.
 
I'm going to say it now next person who complains about benefits destroying the uk or some ******** I PAY MY TAXES DERP DERP, you are almost comic like the redneck who blames GOVARNMENTTT you just remind me of a south park character and you are a total and utter complete retard and should unplug yourself from all the bull you read in the papers
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THEY TOOK ER BENEFITS >< THEY TERK ER DOOO LOL


I would imagine, in the grand scheme of things, there are very few people who are not net recipients of state support.

As i said earlier in the thread you are a complete retard if you think its only "jeremykyle types" who are milking the state for money.EVERYONE in some shape or form is on benefits.From private companies like poundland getting free labour to cash injections called fiscal stimulation (banker bailout if your retarded) Free NHS treatment for granny its all welfare in some shape or form.

There isnt a single part of life that is not getting welfare its just not called welfare but something fancy like fiscal stimulation.What if you have never been in hospital yet cant find a job? Compare it to that fat guy who works yet it going to need a gastric band and a forklift when he hits 50.

Welfare alert!


Also do you work in public sector? Maybe you are a nurse or maybe you are the taxman himself? If so you are on welfare too as your job could not exist without taxpayer money going into the NHS or Goverment.Even kids are on welfare its called child support and i bet your mother claimed it when you were little.She probably is claiming working tax credits too!
 
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do you really think her 3 weeks experience at Poundland was the deciding factor that raised her above the other "200" applicants?

I don't know because I'm not the manager of the Morrisons store she now works at. All else being equal though I would take the applicant that did work experience in another high street retailer over one that didn't.

All I know is she was unemployed for a couple of years (besides her free work at the Museum), then this thing comes up and now she's gainfully employed at a supermarket.

So going on circumstantial evidence it does seem that this "injustice" she had to "suffer" has had something to do with her finally getting a paid job; even if it wasn't the experience that got her the gig the kerfuffle she has caused has obviously motivated her to seek paid employment.

At the start of her 'campaign' her position was very much "I should be allowed to work in the museum for free and claim JSA for as long as I want (or until this magical job that suits me and my degree comes along)", so clearly something has changed her mind to the point where she seeked paid employment. It may have just been the fear of being labelled a 'job snob' or it could have actually been the experience that made her realise doing an unskilled job isn't as bad as she thought.
 
From private companies like poundland getting free labour to cash injections called fiscal stimulation (banker bailout if your retarded) Free NHS treatment for granny its all welfare in some shape or form.
And not forgetting a subsidised workforce through working tax credits etc. because they don't pay their staff a living wage. These benefits aren't supporting the poor they're subsidising rich corporations.
 
Yes this is from the 'Torygraph' and no I don't agree with the Headline but there are a lot of inconvenient truths in this which I don't think we can just ignore because of Tory 'snobbery' (the writer actually claims to be a lefty)....

After the Cait Reilly case, we should seriously consider cutting welfare benefits to all 18 to 25-year-olds

There are many striking things about the Cait Reilly case. There’s that photo of her wearing a Palestinian-style scarf outside Poundland (fashion subtext: “I’m way too culturally switched-on to work in a chavvy joint like this”.) There’s the way the respectable media, so desperate for signs of a Left-wing rebellion against the posh ConDem government, have hilariously tried to turn Ms Reilly into a latter-day Rosa Luxemburg. But the most striking thing is the infantilism, the shameless childishness, of Ms Reilly and the youthful backers of her war against Workfare.

Who else but an ill-read infant, utterly lacking in historical nous and self-awareness, would describe something like Workfare as “slavery”, or being paid a small amount of money by the state to work in Poundland as “forced labour”? Comparing oneself to the beaten and manacled cotton-pickers of yesteryear is the stuff of Kevin the Teenager more than Karl Marx, bringing to mind that spotty overgrown teen’s cry of: “Everyone hates me!”

The infantilism of Cait and Co. can also be seen in the underlying aim of their campaigning – to have the state sustain all young adults who fall on tough times; to have the authorities feed, water, clothe and care for every graduate or school-leaver who doesn’t immediately land a plush job and cheap digs. There is nothing remotely radical, nothing Rosa Luxemburgish about this demand. It is in essence a campaign to extend teenage dependency into adult life, where the state takes over the role of parents in being expected to satiate young folks’ needs and stroke their self-esteem. How hilarious that the Cait cheerleaders talk about “slavery” while metaphorically manacling themselves to the state.

This infantilism, this in-built assumption among many 18 to 25-year-olds that they should automatically go from being suckled by parents to being suckled by the state, is a direct product of today’s cult of welfarism. The unstoppable spread of the welfare state into every area of our lives has given rise to a new generation which takes it for granted that they will never have to struggle, that they will never experience the often fruitful existential angst that comes with having no money, because the caring state will always be there, wrapping a blanket around them and slipping spending money into the pockets of their ironic tweed jackets.

We fail to appreciate just how destructive it is, for both individuals and society, to have huge swathes of the 18 to 25-year-old population receiving various state benefits. Historically, that seven-year period between leaving school or home and turning 25 has been absolutely key to an individual’s discovery and development of his moral autonomy. It’s the period when we rip up old bonds (usually with childhood friends, sometimes with family), and venture into the unforgiving world to try our hand at all sorts of weird things. Through risk-taking and experimentation, falling flat on our faces, being so skint that we have no choice but to strike up new relationships with potential work-providers and learn the art of butt-kissing, a young person becomes an adult, more sussed than he would ever have been if he had remained a dependant, if he always knew in the back of his mind that there was always someone else – a parent, a Miss Havisham, a welfare state apparatchik – ready to bail him out.

The spread of welfarism into the lives of young adults seriously interferes with the scary but creative process of becoming morally independent. It neuters young people’s aspirations for independence by coaxing them into a dependency on a watchful, parent-like state. We end up with 24-year-old teenagers like Cait Reilly, who are so convinced that they should never be permitted to go out into the big bad world without welfarist chaperones that they are willing to go to court to fight for this “right”. Some right – the right to not be autonomous. Is it not time to cut benefits to all young adults – no, not to save the state cash, but to save youngsters from the soul-devouring fate of being led by the hand towards adulthood?

As a Leftist, I’m expected to love the welfare state. But there is little to love in a system that implicitly crushes individual initiative and youthful resolve. Yesterday in the Guardian, a researcher for the Joseph Rowntree Trust wrote of her shock at discovering that the poor, those most reliant on welfare, are not “pro-welfare”; in fact, they think welfare is something claimed by losers and layabouts. That isn’t remotely surprising. Those who have no choice but to claim welfare know very well that it has a warping effect on one’s life and ambitions. It is only those who don’t need welfare – comfortably off liberal commentators and charity researchers – who think welfare is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/b...g-welfare-benefits-to-all-18-to-25-year-olds/
 
And not forgetting a subsidised workforce through working tax credits etc. because they don't pay their staff a living wage. These benefits aren't supporting the poor they're subsidising rich corporations.

Exactly yet how many times do the sun or daily mail print stories about just how far welfare reaches into society? The only form of welfare under threat is the JSA and sickness benefits.

No mention of stopping all the money sent to the EU which is then sent to poland and romania as part of the EU deal to build and invest in the new EU countries.More like a bribe so once thier economy collapses like ireland the EU can own them like a private corporation and force them to cut thier welfare bills and impoverish thier nations.


Its a huge scam and 1% of people actually know wtf is going on.Im glad you at least can see where the poundland money really goes.The question is who is behind it all and why do they favour cutting benefits for the poor over the rich?

Is it the only form of population culling they can get away with these days or what?
 
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