Anyone know anything about Medicine/ graduate entry medicine

Soldato
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I am considering applying for a post-grad medicine course. I have a few practical questions that**some of you might be able to help with.

1.*******Has anyone had any experience of apply for the graduate entry medicine? How hard are they to get on to? I can see that the % acceptance rates are fairly low (~10%). I have a*first in Biochemistry. What might I need beyond this? There are practical constraints on me doing much in the way of work experience as I already work full time.

2.*******Broadly speaking how much do you earn in the first few years after medical school? E.g. how much will you earn year 1, year 2, year 3 etc

3.*******We are thinking of emigrating in a few years’ time to Australia or Canada. My presumption would be that it is fairly easy to find work abroad as a Doctor, is this correct? Are there any hurdles to overcome?
 
my only sentiment here is that if point 2. is irelevant, if you are going into medicine for the money you are in the wrong career. Becoming a doctor is more of a vocation (like teaching). Sure you could become a plastic surgeon in a private clinic and earn millions, but thats simply a waste of a qualified medical professional

If 2. is an important factor I suggest forgetting about this whole enterprise.
 
I am considering applying for a post-grad medicine course. I have a few practical questions that**some of you might be able to help with.

1.*******Has anyone had any experience of apply for the graduate entry medicine? How hard are they to get on to? I can see that the % acceptance rates are fairly low (~10%). I have a*first in Biochemistry. What might I need beyond this? There are practical constraints on me doing much in the way of work experience as I already work full time.

2.*******Broadly speaking how much do you earn in the first few years after medical school? E.g. how much will you earn year 1, year 2, year 3 etc

3.*******We are thinking of emigrating in a few years’ time to Australia or Canada. My presumption would be that it is fairly easy to find work abroad as a Doctor, is this correct? Are there any hurdles to overcome?

I really don't think grad entry is as hard as people make out, I sat the gamsat (If you get the score (Guaranteed interviews at notts peninsula st georges) your chances of getting in are quite high unless you botch your interview or don't do enough work exp). With a 1st you have a VERY good chance. You can sit UKCAT and gamsat.

Work exp is important I worked as HCA for a year n half, volunteered for like 8 months st margarets and did a week away with charity called Vitalise.

However I didn't follow through with medicine I had change of heart after all that lol.

And yea as doctor you can go anywhere you like.
 
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I am considering applying for a post-grad medicine course. I have a few practical questions that**some of you might be able to help with.

1.*******Has anyone had any experience of apply for the graduate entry medicine? How hard are they to get on to? I can see that the % acceptance rates are fairly low (~10%). I have a*first in Biochemistry. What might I need beyond this? There are practical constraints on me doing much in the way of work experience as I already work full time.

2.*******Broadly speaking how much do you earn in the first few years after medical school? E.g. how much will you earn year 1, year 2, year 3 etc

3.*******We are thinking of emigrating in a few years’ time to Australia or Canada. My presumption would be that it is fairly easy to find work abroad as a Doctor, is this correct? Are there any hurdles to overcome?

1. Sorry, I did a normal-entry MBBS course, but the entry % is also competitive, the key is to research and present yourself as strongly as possible
2. It's perfectly ok to ask about pay - you will have enormous debts by the end of the training so you need to know what your remuneration will be. Expect 25-40k per annum for the first 5 years
3. Most countries will welcome you with open arms, but the US and Canada want you to pass their own equivalence exams (pain in the backside), though Australia are happy to accept UK qualifications
 
To answer:
1. Biochemistry would be great... you'd get in on that alone. education wise. Like any other University, when you go for an interview... it's more about how you present yourself. So keep that in mind... Also to add, my friend who had to do an under-grad degree as well, before being allowed to do Medicine, was told he could've done French as an under-grad degree and it still would've sufficed.
2. You hit the 25-30k or so mark, (depending on where you work) it's comfortable for somebody coming out of education really.
3. Yeah... I can't see anybody turning the skills/expertise away. You've got something to "offer" the country you're looking to emigrate to. So it should be all right...
 
Doesnt Australia make you work in the outback before being able to work in major populations? Or perhaps its just easier to find your first position that way. Im sure its something you may need to consider...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
TheCenturion and Tres have both gone through the process to start in medicine although they were doing the undergrad I believe but they may still have some advice.

We have a few more who are doctors already, Xordium is in that field although I think he's partially retired now so what his level of knowledge is around current entry requirements I couldn't say.

2.*******Broadly speaking how much do you earn in the first few years after medical school? E.g. how much will you earn year 1, year 2, year 3 etc

3.*******We are thinking of emigrating in a few years’ time to Australia or Canada. My presumption would be that it is fairly easy to find work abroad as a Doctor, is this correct? Are there any hurdles to overcome?

2. I'd have to agree that if it's mainly about the money then it's probably not the best reason for studying medicine. You will be working a lot of hours as a newly qualified doctor, if you work it out on a £/h basis then you might be surprised at how the figures work out... That said you're unlikely to be living like a pauper either.

3. One of my cousins is working in Australia as a doctor and he loves it. I don't know whether I'd describe it as easy to do but it certainly puts you ahead of many in the application process as you'd be an in-demand profession. You still need to meet the relevant criteria for the countries you want to enter and you may need a job offer in advance of emigrating there but it's something you need to look into more carefully.
 
I was watching a show on BBC about junior doctors and they said they earned around 21-22k in their first year. But I don't think that includes overtime etc if they get it.
 
my only sentiment here is that if point 2. is irelevant, if you are going into medicine for the money you are in the wrong career. Becoming a doctor is more of a vocation (like teaching). Sure you could become a plastic surgeon in a private clinic and earn millions, but thats simply a waste of a qualified medical professional

If 2. is an important factor I suggest forgetting about this whole enterprise.

Thanks for the lecture mate. I would be forgoing pay for 4-5 years and incurring large course fees, so obviously I need to consider the pay before i can decide whether it is affordable.
 
1: I did on occasion assess the merits of people to undergo training as part of my academic role. However, this was in the past. Your first is notable which university was it from - the answer would make it more notable. Biochemistry is a tough subject and very relevant and would indicate to me you would not overly struggle with the level of the theory. You would however be required to demonstrate something beyond this. As assessors we are spoiled for choice. What practical skills could you offer? Do you have any experience in any caring role? There will be plenty of other people with firsts and you'll no doubt want to shine out over and above them to get into a reputable institution. That will facilitate a good career pathway. A good medical school will stand out for your whole career and so will the hospitals you trained at. Think about what type of medicine may already interest you and position yourself accordingly. But be realistic.

2: Realistically 22-23k the BMA will have the exact figures.

3: Your ease of work abroad will be determined by how attractive you make yourself. The hoops will then disappear. I did elements of my training in Australia and certain units there are internationally recognised. I know of great work being done in Toronto but the competition for there is high. Also bear in mind Australia is not what it was ten years ago and you may have a soul destroying experience when you as a reg are earning far far less than the family next door as the dad in that house drives trucks for the mines!

Overall though I would suggest you get some direct experience if you haven't already. There are aspects to modern medicine that are not really shown on the TV eg the modern nursing role etc and how as a junior you will be expected to and would be well advised to know that plenty of nurses will and always will know more than you - learn their value early a good nurse is better than a good doctor because it's pretty easy to get a good doctor - one day you may well have your own team and most of that team will be nurses. Know what they can and can't do what they do and do not want to do etc. Unless you go into private practice in a select area then you are not going to ever be making megabucks especially when you consider the amount of time and money you will sink into the whole process. If you want to do it well then you need to be aware what a life consuming process it can be at times and how it will impede your social and family life. Moreover, there is no guaranteed job at the end of the road and you may find yourself in a cutthroat competition to get a position and if you don't get it being prepared to take something else eg the two people I went up to ended up doing something they didn't really like and never wanted to end up in those last few years and the drive for the one post split up good friendships that had been there for years. You mention both of you moving abroad are both of your ready for the sacrifices you may have to make because their will be many and even more if you want to give it a really good go and do it justice eg do you and your partner want children? Is your partner willing to be a stay at home parent or will she want a career? If yes then are you willing to have your children raised by someone else whilst you look after possibly other peoples children.

I would not want to discourage you but it would be remiss of me not to point out what a difficult road you are choosing if you wish to do it well. Because your competition will likely be as clever so you will have to match their fortitude, determination and sacrifice. There are a few GPs on here who you will better advise you if that is a road that appeals, I think Pikeypriest (or something like that) butchers people with sharp implements and there are quite are going through med school atm. But I hope I can offer you some perspective from someone who started went through and came out the other end with the things achieved that need to be achieved and the lessons learned along the way and the consequences that some may not think about. It's a rewarding job but don't underestimate the amount of your life it may take both in time and effort but also sanity and health.

Being I am feeling nice:
http://bma.org.uk/developing-your-career/becoming-a-doctor/entry-to-medical-school
http://bma.org.uk/practical-support-at-work/pay-fees-allowances/current-pay-levels
http://bma.org.uk/developing-your-career/career-progression/working-abroad/canada
http://bma.org.uk/developing-your-career/career-progression/working-abroad/australia
 
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1: I did on occasion assess the merits of people to undergo training as part of my academic role. However, this was in the past. Your first is notable which university was it from - the answer would make it more notable. Biochemistry is a tough subject and very relevant and would indicate to me you would not overly struggle with the level of the theory. You would however be required to demonstrate something beyond this. As assessors we are spoiled for choice. What practical skills could you offer? Do you have any experience in any caring role? There will be plenty of other people with firsts and you'll no doubt want to shine out over and above them to get into a reputable institution. That will facilitate a good career pathway. A good medical school will stand out for your whole career and so will the hospitals you trained at. Think about what type of medicine may already interest you and position yourself accordingly. But be realistic.

2: Realistically 22-23k the BMA will have the exact figures.

3: Your ease of work abroad will be determined by how attractive you make yourself. The hoops will then disappear. I did elements of my training in Australia and certain units there are internationally recognised. I know of great work being done in Toronto but the competition for there is high. Also bear in mind Australia is not what it was ten years ago and you may have a soul destroying experience when you as a reg are earning far far less than the family next door as the dad in that house drives trucks for the mines!

Overall though I would suggest you get some direct experience if you haven't already. There are aspects to modern medicine that are not really shown on the TV eg the modern nursing role etc and how as a junior you will be expected to and would be well advised to know that plenty of nurses will and always will know more than you - learn their value early a good nurse is better than a good doctor because it's pretty easy to get a good doctor - one day you may well have your own team and most of that team will be nurses. Know what they can and can't do what they do and do not want to do etc. Unless you go into private practice in a select area then you are not going to ever be making megabucks especially when you consider the amount of time and money you will sink into the whole process. If you want to do it well then you need to be aware what a life consuming process it can be at times and how it will impede your social and family life. Moreover, there is no guaranteed job at the end of the road and you may find yourself in a cutthroat competition to get a position and if you don't get it being prepared to take something else eg the two people I went up to ended up doing something they didn't really like and never wanted to end up in those last few years and the drive for the one post split up good friendships that had been there for years. You mention both of you moving abroad are both of your ready for the sacrifices you may have to make because their will be many and even more if you want to give it a really good go and do it justice eg do you and your partner want children? Is your partner willing to be a stay at home parent or will she want a career? If yes then are you willing to have your children raised by someone else whilst you look after possibly other peoples children.

I would not want to discourage you but it would be remiss of me not to point out what a difficult road you are choosing if you wish to do it well. Because your competition will likely be as clever so you will have to match their fortitude, determination and sacrifice. There are a few GPs on here who you will better advise you if that is a road that appeals, I think Pikeypriest (or something like that) butchers people with sharp implements and there are quite are going through med school atm. But I hope I can offer you some perspective from someone who started went through and came out the other end with the things achieved that need to be achieved and the lessons learned along the way and the consequences that some may not think about. It's a rewarding job but don't underestimate the amount of your life it may take both in time and effort but also sanity and health.

Being I am feeling nice:
http://bma.org.uk/developing-your-career/becoming-a-doctor/entry-to-medical-school
http://bma.org.uk/practical-support-at-work/pay-fees-allowances/current-pay-levels
http://bma.org.uk/developing-your-career/career-progression/working-abroad/canada
http://bma.org.uk/developing-your-career/career-progression/working-abroad/australia

Thanks for you reply I sent you a message via trust.
 
To answer:
1. Biochemistry would be great... you'd get in on that alone. education wise. Like any other University, when you go for an interview... it's more about how you present yourself. So keep that in mind... Also to add, my friend who had to do an under-grad degree as well, before being allowed to do Medicine, was told he could've done French as an under-grad degree and it still would've sufficed.
2. You hit the 25-30k or so mark, (depending on where you work) it's comfortable for somebody coming out of education really.
3. Yeah... I can't see anybody turning the skills/expertise away. You've got something to "offer" the country you're looking to emigrate to. So it should be all right...

Grad medicine is incredibly competitive - you won't get in on biomed alone. A great GAMSAT score will get you in though, usually more weighted than the first degree. Biomed is a common entry path for those who didn't get in to medicine, had biomed as their 5th choice, and moved from there. I had 8 friends go for grad med entry in 2012/13!

First year, with unsociable bandings etc, you'll be looking at 24-30k.

You can go and practice in Australia almost straight away, after F2. Lots of UK docs do. The pay is much better over there apparently!

1st year medic. And absolutely loving it.
 
Grad medicine is incredibly competitive - you won't get in on biomed alone. A great GAMSAT score will get you in though, usually more weighted than the first degree. Biomed is a common entry path for those who didn't get in to medicine, had biomed as their 5th choice, and moved from there. I had 8 friends go for grad med entry in 2012/13!

First year, with unsociable bandings etc, you'll be looking at 24-30k.

You can go and practice in Australia almost straight away, after F2. Lots of UK docs do. The pay is much better over there apparently!

1st year medic. And absolutely loving it.

I didn't do biomed, I did Biochemistry. However I do take your point about GAMSAT , I will look into whether it is something I should do. I read that you need knowledge equivalent to 1st year university chemistry and biology, and a-level physics. My Biology and Chemistry knowledge will be a bit rusty as I graduate in 2002. However I am confident it would be fairly easy to get up to speed. I currently tutor A-level chemistry and biology, so the basics are very fresh. Physics would be a lot harder, I haven't done physics since gcse, about 17years ago!
 
If we are talking about the GEP (Graduate entry program) It is just as tough if not more so then undergraduate entry.

You mention briefly that you work full time and subsequently don't have much time for work experience. Medical schools expect to see work experience of some sorts, could be in a hospital or a nursing home or a GP surgery.

Also volunteering is emphasised quite substantially, without it you are at an instant disadvantage.

Also a good GAMSAT score is essential, so get practising and good luck :)
 
If we are talking about the GEP (Graduate entry program) It is just as tough if not more so then undergraduate entry.

You mention briefly that you work full time and subsequently don't have much time for work experience. Medical schools expect to see work experience of some sorts, could be in a hospital or a nursing home or a GP surgery.

Also volunteering is emphasised quite substantially, without it you are at an instant disadvantage.

Also a good GAMSAT score is essential, so get practising and good luck :)

I have some work experience in a nursing home and a gp surgery. But that is from roughly 16 years ago, so I would need to do something new.

Those of you who have done GAMSAT, how hard did you find it? How large is the physics element?
 
Work experience, breadth of CV and understanding of the course and medical profession is the first step. This can be assessed before you're even at an interview. In my opinion work experience from 16 years ago should probably be updated.

Where are you looking to apply?

If you've got a good job and prospects within it, you'll be quizzed on why you want to leave all that behind. Medicine isn't all sunshine and flowers, with current financial pressures and target based finance, training isn't going to be the main focus. Once you're out of medical school is where the hard work really begins.
 
I didn't do biomed, I did Biochemistry. However I do take your point about GAMSAT , I will look into whether it is something I should do. I read that you need knowledge equivalent to 1st year university chemistry and biology, and a-level physics. My Biology and Chemistry knowledge will be a bit rusty as I graduate in 2002. However I am confident it would be fairly easy to get up to speed. I currently tutor A-level chemistry and biology, so the basics are very fresh. Physics would be a lot harder, I haven't done physics since gcse, about 17years ago!

You'll definitely have to do GAMSAT, BMAT or UKCAT, I don't know of any grad entry programs that don't require one of these. You should be fine, grad entry is just years 1 & 2 combined into one. It's more the capacity to learn at that level - if you've got a good degree already, and a high entrance score, it shows you should be able to keep up with the pace.

I'm 29 and had the questions tom_nieto said - why I was leaving a nice life to enter 5 years of studying (with kids), years of low pay and stress etc. They very quickly work out who's in it for the right reasons, which interview boards take quite seriously.

Physics isn't really used... apart from with a tiny bit of radiology, but it's not needed!

Good luck, whatever you choose!
 
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