Female Students Facing Sexual Harassment And Groping In University Lad Culture, Says NUS

[Efour]

I was going to mention this. However, I think it is also important to there is a preconception in society that Rape is somehow a worse crime than Murder, perhaps because it is seen as an attack on a woman personally and it, like paedophilia, goes against our baser instincts of protecting our species (and families) by protecting our young and their mothers.

This is basically summing my "sensible" opinion up on the matter.
Whilst some people can very easily split up real world and game chat into 2 distinct areas, when your sat on a bus listening to school kids talking about raping each other it does get a bit odd.

 

[aln]

Murders, certainly in this country, isn't on anywhere the same scale of an issue as sexism and the crimes that go with it. It doesn't have the same level of acceptance either.

Let me just get this out of the way. Sexism and rape aren't the same issue.

On the same vein, I've probably called my brother a wee woman for crying. Does that make me an evil sexist?

This is basically summing my "sensible" opinion up on the matter.
Whilst some people can very easily split up real world and game chat into 2 distinct areas, when your sat on a bus listening to school kids talking about raping each other it does get a bit odd.

That is odd but you're also talking about kids playing games which are rated 15 or 18. Back in the day gaming culture became popular, being on-line playing games at under 16 was fairly uncommon.

 

[Philtor]

Women are as bad as men these days. Im not trying to excuse the behaviour of anyone here, but let's be real... it's only a bit of fun. When people get upset then that's another story.

 

[dowie]

Murders, certainly in this country, isn't on anywhere the same scale of an issue as sexism and the crimes that go with it. It doesn't have the same level of acceptance either.

Rape doesn't have a level of acceptance and in the context of gaming is either gender neutral or quite likely referring to what is usually male on male rape... i.e. 'butt raped'

 

[Burnsy2023]

And it's true that some people see sexism and homophobia as legitimate options... but the same applies to murder.

No the same does not apply to murder. Homophobia is legitimised by organisations such as the church and like the link at the start of the thread, sexism is rife, especially in certain parts of society. Murder isn't legitimised by any organisation and doesn't have the acceptance as homophobia and sexism.

 

[Efour]

This is soooo far off topic now but... to the gamers... or to anyone infact..

if you are talking to a women (heaven forbid) and you beat her at said game would you say "I totally raped you" in COD4 or whatever ? Cos logically in the game context she would completely be comfortable with it ??

 

[aln]

Rape doesn't have a level of acceptance and in the context of gaming is either gender neutral or quite likely referring to what is usually male on male rape... i.e. 'butt raped'

It has nothing to do with either male or female rape. It's just looking for the next most outrageous word to describe humiliation.

I just beat you...

30-29 = I win.
30-15 = owned.
30-0 = raped.

Not that the kids have any idea how to use the terms these days.

This is soooo far off topic now but... to the gamers... or to anyone infact..

if you are talking to a women (heaven forbid) and you beat her at said game would you say "I totally raped you" in COD4 or whatever ? Cos logically in the game context she would completely be comfortable with it ??

If you go on youtube you'll actually find woman using that language to insult male players. Unfortunately the gaming world (at least with such language) is fairly male centric, thus adding in a typical female who doesn't quite understand whats going on will never go down well. Neither will adding an elderly gentleman really.

Don't get me wrong, I don't really participate in gaming culture (despite having a ridiculous amount of times spend gaming) I'm just maintaining that it doesn't really mean the same thing because of the context, thus the usage barely matters unless you're particularly sensitive to those words.

No the same does not apply to murder. Homophobia is legitimised by organisations such as the church and like the link at the start of the thread, sexism is rife, especially in certain parts of society. Murder isn't legitimised by any organisation and doesn't have the acceptance as homophobia and sexism.

Lets be honest, the bigger failure of modern society is organisations like the church being allowed special privileges to be prejudice.

 

[Burnsy2023]

but let's be real... it's only a bit of fun.

I'm sure that's what sexists say to support their views. Read the link at the start of the thread. Does that sound fun to you, because it sounds horrific to me?

 

[Burnsy2023]

You said to some people, not institutions or organisations.

I was talking about groups of society, stop being pedantic.

 

[Castiel]

Again, you need to apply that same logic to words like murder. You've giving special attention to words that rub you the wrong way personally and totally failing to get my point.

Yeah you are right to make the point, however the word Murder also has an established informal definition that has nothing to do with homicide or violence, whereas the word Rape which while it also has different definitions, they are all associated with extreme violence and engender the use of force. (I am aware that both murder and rape also have other definitions relating to nouns, for example a murder of crows, or oilseed rape).

To is a difficult thing to justify, but it does seem that using Rape in such a way does trivialise the word, and its associations. Whether that has any bearing on behaviour I wouldn't like to say.

 

[dowie]

This is soooo far off topic now but... to the gamers... or to anyone infact..

if you are talking to a women (heaven forbid) and you beat her at said game would you say "I totally raped you" in COD4 or whatever ? Cos logically in the game context she would completely be comfortable with it ??

Depends on the person... I mean you seem to be implying that its only offensive if said to a girl? Isn't that in itself slightly sexist?

a friend of mine lent her uni revision notes/essay plans to another friend... said friend allowed others to copy the notes... ended up with a whole group of them apparently sat in the library, passing round the notes and copying them. My Friend got back from lunch apparently and wasn't so pleased... she described it to me as 'I had my notes raped'

Its a word... being used as a metaphor, that's all... It doesn't trivialise the act of rape any more than me massacring a packet of Haribo trivialises mass killings.

 

[aln]

Yeah you are right to make the point, however the word Murder also has an established informal definition that has nothing to do with homicide or violence, whereas the word Rape which while it also has different definitions, they are all associated with extreme violence and engender the use of force. (I am aware that both murder and rape also have other definitions relating to nouns, for example a murder of crows, or oilseed rape).

You're still wrong dude.

• The word Murder has a informal definition. Correct.
• The word Rape doesn't have a informal definition. Wrong.

If the latter were true, we wouldn't be having this conversation. At one point in our history murder wouldn't have been used informally. Eventually someone decided its a good idea to do so, and thus said idea was born.

The very same thing has happened with the word rape, the only difference is it's happened long after you were born and you're finding it difficult to adapt.

To is a difficult thing to justify, but it does seem that using Rape in such a way does trivialise the word, and its associations. Whether that has any bearing on behaviour I wouldn't like to say.

No more of less than whats happened with any of the other words listed. Seriously, step back from your persona peeves and look at it logically. Other than timescale, whats really the difference?

 

[Castiel]

It wasn't strange. It's completely fine and understandable, given its use in a poem (which presumably had rhyming elements, and so forth).

I realise you'll argue ad nauseam, as per, but you're just wrong to claim it's strange.

Well it's not common to see its use in such a context in modern prose or poetry, essentially because it is becoming archaic and is predominantly associated differently in modern English as opposed to traditional English, I didn't say it wasn't understandable or it wasn't fine to use that definition, I said it was strange as in not common.....this is what I meant and I stand by it....I know it doesn't suit your argument but there it is.

 

[Efour]

OK so rape in BF3/COD is ok but in RL its bad im glad we got that one straight.
its all about the Humiliation as someone said.. Like it or not, that is still the point of saying it. Still the meaning of saying it. to be butt raped....

i Personally will cry the day the dictionary explanation of rape includes Harriers, Chopper gunner, tactical nuke in its definition.(you deffo have to be a gamer to get that attempt at humor)

 

[Castiel]

You're still wrong dude.

• The word Murder has a informal definition. Correct.
• The word Rape doesn't have a informal definition. Wrong.

If the latter were true, we wouldn't be having this conversation. At one point in our history murder wouldn't have been used informally. Eventually someone decided its a good idea to do so, and thus said idea was born.

The very same thing has happened with the word rape, the only difference is it's happened long after you were born and you're finding it difficult you adapt.

I'm not wrong...I didn't say Rape did not have an informal usage...I said it was still defined (even informally by association) by extreme violence and it engenders the use of force against others. Even when you use the word Rape in the context that you are defending, it still relates to the use of force and violence (it is associating with the acts of seizure by force or humiliation by force).

As a linguist I adapt very quickly to changes in language, and we are having this conversation not because the word Rape is being used as slang, but because that slang is still associated with the underlying context of the initial, more commonly held definition.

 

[Efour]

Depends on the person... I mean you seem to be implying that its only offensive if said to a girl? Isn't that in itself slightly sexist?

no its a sweeping generalization LIKE THE MAJORITY OF STUFF ONLINE BUT...

oops caps

In my opinion and id guess in society Rape does in 99% of cases, tend to be Men >Women. Your female friend is rare and yes this probably reflects the word becoming more commonly used as a casual metaphor.

I think we just gonna have to agree language changes and evolves and the older generation tends to think some words are more sacred than others..

 

[Castiel]

You said strange. You should have picked a suitable word, if that's your stance.

Strange means unusual...and it is unusual to see the word used thusly in modern usage, be it poetry or prose. The word was suitable.

 

[aln]

I'm not wrong...I didn't say Rape did not have an informal usage...I said it was still defined (even informally by association) by extreme violence and it engenders the use of force against others. Even when you use the word Rape in the context that you are defending, it still relates to the use of force and violence (it is associating with the acts of seizure by force or humiliation by force).

As a linguist I adapt very quickly to changes in language, and we are having this conversation not because the word Rape is being used as slang, but because that slang is still associated with the underlying context of the initial, more commonly held definition.

If you want to be stupidly pedantic about it this is what you actually said:-

"whereas the word Rape which while it also has different definitions, they are all associated with extreme violence and engender the use of force."

I didn't feel I'd have to go into such silly detail to make the point, but here we go again being literal to the point of stupidity. Stop being a pseudo intelligent forum ***** and argue the points not the semantics.

Beating someone really badly at a game has nothing to do with the use of force, violence or anything sexual and if you think so, you're a very silly man.

There is it, short and sweet. Don't like it? Tough.

 

[Efour]

 

[Castiel]

I don't see where I said it did not have an informal usage however, I said that all the definitions associated with rape outside of some obvious examples such as oilseed rape are associated with violence and the use of force...including the slang use of which you are defending....and funnily enough the discussion about meaning is also known by the word semantics, as in the study of meaning. Ironic don't you think.

And beating someone badly at a game isn't the point, it is the association attributed to it, and the use of the word Rape has that association, again I did not say it had sexual undertones, only that the word Rape when used in such a way has associations with the use of force by violence (as in seizure, or beating someone if you prefer). You can, as you did and I pointed out, make that association with the use of the word murder in a similar context, but murder does have a more established informal use that has more acceptance. It also, because of that establishment doesn't associated in quite the same way. I mentioned in one of my earlier posts that there is a societal and cultural preconception that Rape is a worse crime than Murder, and that may play some part in the overall associations and their suitability.

To be clear I do not hold an opinion on whether it is acceptable or not, only showing to associations from which it is derived and why some people will see the use of the word Rape in such a context as unsuitable.

There is no need to resort to insults simply because you feel I am disagreeing with you.