Female Students Facing Sexual Harassment And Groping In University Lad Culture, Says NUS

[RDM]

How is it?

You are making light to the very real act of rape by pretending you are a rapist. Rarely do you hear someone jokingly refer to themselves as a peadophile yet rapist is somehow "funny"?

I was genuinely surprised to see you make that comment after saying you would never make light of rape as it so obviously makes light of rape.

It's clearly not a point directed at validating rape in anyway and I though it was quite clearly criticism of someone elses understanding of the issue.

You may not be validating rape, but you are certainly making light of it.

This is the problem with subjects like this, it's so taboo that the PC are outraged at any point that doesn't sound like "rape is bad, mmmkay?".

I don't think rape is a taboo subject, we need to talk about it more, we need to dispel the myths about it (the aforementioned sexy clothing myth for example) we need to let people know just how offensive it is and how rape jokes just aren't funny. If being PC is saying "Your joke trivialising rape is unfunny and frankly offensive" then go for it.

Do you agree with the article I am criticizing?

I certainly agree with the sentiment of it, I haven't read the studies to see how valid the science is, but I certainly think rape jokes are offensive and have no problems saying as much.

 

[aln]

You are making light to the very real act of rape by pretending you are a rapist. Rarely do you hear someone jokingly refer to themselves as a peadophile yet rapist is somehow "funny"?

I was genuinely surprised to see you make that comment after saying you would never make light of rape as it so obviously makes light of rape.

You may not be validating rape, but you are certainly making light of it.

Again I wasn't making light of rape. I was using use of something abhorrent to make light of a persons and their comments. You actually have it backwards and it wouldn't really work if I was trivializing rape.

Said girl was also 17 when I got with her. The pedo jokes were common and occasionally came from myself, because thats just how I roll.

I don't think rape is a taboo subject, we need to talk about it more, we need to dispel the myths about it (the aforementioned sexy clothing myth for example) we need to let people know just how offensive it is and how rape jokes just aren't funny. If being PC is saying "Your joke trivialising rape is unfunny and frankly offensive" then go for it.

Were you brought up middle class by any chance?

I certainly agree with the sentiment of it, I haven't read the studies to see how valid the science is, but I certainly think rape jokes are offensive and have no problems saying as much.

Agreeing with the sentiment of it is where we clash. I think it's a load of ***** which is the same reasoning I use to validate my above comment. It's not validating, it's not trivializing, it has nothing to do with my complete and utter disdain for actual rapists.

 

[RDM]

I find myself disagreeing with pretty much everything you are saying on this topic. By making jokes about being a rapist I do think you are making light of rape, even if you personally don't think so.

 

[aln]

I find myself disagreeing with pretty much everything you are saying on this topic. By making jokes about being a rapist I do think you are making light of rape, even if you personally don't think so.

You can disagree all you want, nowt wrong with that.

I'd still like to put forward the point that maybe you've just lived a culturally different life from myself and are completely misunderstanding how I am and what I mean because of this. I also think you're being more judgmental than need be because of this in an area where we'd be better off listening to each other.

 

[RDM]

You can disagree all you want, nowt wrong with that.

I'd still like to put forward the point that maybe you've just lived a culturally different life from myself and are completely misunderstanding how I am and what I mean because of this.

Working class parents, broken home, rubbish comprehensive in a northern slum town, the usual. Maybe I just don't like the culture that trivialises rape?

 

[aln]

Working class parents, broken home, rubbish comprehensive in a northern slum town, the usual. Maybe I just don't like the culture that trivialises rape?

Well thats an opinion, not a fact. Thats about all there is left to say on that matter.

 

[Efour]

Im from a working class "normal" background too and tbh, as i said yesterday, i dont get your overly jokey stance on rape either, but whatever i can deal with it.

 

[aln]

Im from a working class "normal" background too and tbh, as i said yesterday, i dont get your overly jokey stance on rape either, but whatever i can deal with it.

You lad, wouldn't get my overly jokey stance on anything I suspect. No offense meant at all though. Different strokes for different folks.

The same people I grew up with who'd have a ridiculous sense of humour and who can make light of any situation (though I still maintain he/you have it backwards) are far more likely to cut your ***** off at even the hint of you being an actual rapist.

Thats sort of unfortunate because I'm personally a fan of due process, but the idea that jokes between such people aren't completely understood for what they are and that they somehow validate the actions of monsters is completely lost on me.

Also it was more ill-spirited sarcasm than any sort of joke. I'm slightly saddened that other people agree with that article.

 

[Efour]

I find it comical you canjudge me without knowing "nothing," not even the slightest thing about me, Lad.

All i said was i find your joking stance odd, Lad. Nothing else, Lad.

You really have no idea and that's the joys of the semi anonymity of the internet, Lad.

lad.

Edit: i think you will find we both have a very similar, immature, sense of humor. i just didnt think that 1 aspect is not so funny outside of incredibly small niches. I certainly wouldn't brag about it in public.

 

[aln]

I find it comical you canjudge me without knowing "nothing," not even the slightest thing about me, Lad.

All i said was i find your joking stance odd, Lad. Nothing else, Lad.

You really have no idea and that's the joys of the semi anonymity of the internet, Lad.

lad.

You realised I used that word exactly one time in such a context? I mean come on dude, you can do better than that. At least make fun of one of my actual idiosyncrasies.

Also I'm not really anon here, nothing to hide.

Edit: i think you will find we both have a very similar, immature, sense of humor. i just didnt think that 1 aspect is not so funny outside of incredibly small niches. I certainly wouldn't brag about it in public.

To be fair I already said it was all about context.

I'll happily insult my friends, as I've said they've jokingly called me a pedo for doing a bit of cradle snatching. I specifically stated I found chanting UGLY to a perfect stranger to be nasty. I won't even swear in front of my parents, never mind tell jokes anywhere near as crude as the ones they've told me. I think the Internet has fairly lax rules where almost anything goes. I'm rarely actually just a ******** for the sake of being a ********.

 

[Efour]

tee hee

 

[Westyfield2]

This thread made me lol. Sadly I'm **** at rugby .

Also, someone (I can't remember who) made the very valid point, that we should not be teaching girls not to dress like "*****" to avoid being raped, we should be teaching boys that rape is inherently abhorrent. I think cultures like this just perpetuate potentially quite dangerous stereotypes that do actually hurt people, regardless if they're justified as "jokes".

I should be able to leave my house unlocked and nothing get stolen, as that's abhorrent. I should be able to leave the keys in my car and it not get joyridden, as that's abhorrent. Girls should be able to dress like "*****" and not get raped, as that's abhorrent.

Unfortunately we don't live in utopia, we live in a fallen world where evil exists, and rather than crying about it we need to face facts get on with life.

I take the reasonable precaution and lock my house. I take the reasonable precaution of not leaving the keys in my car. Girls should take the reasonable precaution and not dress like "*****".

 

[RDM]

I take the reasonable precaution and lock my house. I take the reasonable precaution of not leaving the keys in my car. Girls should take the reasonable precaution and not dress like "*****".

One is a reasonable precaution whilst the cadence seems to show that the other isn't. So what is the point?

 

[ethan]

I take the reasonable precaution and lock my house. I take the reasonable precaution of not leaving the keys in my car. Girls should take the reasonable precaution and not dress like "*****".

I'd rather suspect it would make very little difference as to what they dressed like given the type of person the original post was directed at.

 

[ethan]

So what is the point?

Reads like mitigation.

 

[aln]

Reads like mitigation.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity*.

* In reality it's ignorance, not stupidity.

For the record I think girls should take reasonable precautions. Buddy systems and watching drinks are probably more reasonable though.

 

[Gogl]

One is a reasonable precaution whilst the cadence seems to show that the other isn't. So what is the point?

I think his point is that we should be teaching girls whatever is needed to keep them safe until such a time as we have managed to teach boys that rape is inherently abhorrent.

 

[Westyfield2]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying rape. Ever.

It's just that comment, presented in the very first reply to this rather long thread, deserved a reply.

There is a valid point however that whilst the reasonable precaution would stop you getting raped, if they've gone out with the mission of raping someone they're just gonna find an easier victim and the crime statistics at the end of the day are still going to be the same just with a different name.

I think his point is that we should be teaching girls whatever is needed to keep them safe until such a time as we have managed to teach boys that rape is inherently abhorrent.

This.

 

[RDM]

I think his point is that we should be teaching girls whatever is needed to keep them safe until such a time as we have managed to teach boys that rape is inherently abhorrent.

But you aren't actually doing that, you are teaching them to do something that makes no real difference. Whilst at the same time perpetuating the myth that the clothing of a rape victim is in some way to blame for the rape.

Don't you see that as inherently damaging?

 

[Angilion]

Well then they don't understand what rape is then. What they do consider rape, they still find appalling. That needs to be a re-education but what has that got to do with the language they use?

You've made the mistake of assuming that hurfdurf's argument is true and responding on that basis. So you've already given him your support, even though you think you're arguing against him.

Anyone can create a study showing that many men think rape is OK as long as the word "rape" isn't used...as long as they redefine "rape" to mean something different. It's a common tactic in some forms of politics because it's effective. For example, you can redefine "domestic violence" to include various non-violent things, e.g. a man leaving the room while a woman he's in a relationship with is shouting at him or hitting him. You can then present the results of your study showing that a large number of men have committed acts of domestic violence against women, secure in the knowledge that if you say nothing then almost everyone will interpret the results using the normal definition of violence rather than your redefinition to inflate the numbers. Switching definitions like that is very effective advocacy politics, so it's used. Often.

Politics is often a dirty business and politics devoted to promoting irrational prejudices is one of the dirtiest types of politics.