Are people starting to lose interest in Apple?

[Mattus]

EXAMPLE 2

Apple Imac - £1500

Same spec PC - custom built, delivered, better graphics, better screen, better CPU etc. - £1000

PC = better spec, faster, better screen etc. 66% of price. Imac = Pretty case and badge.

That's also a poor example.

An iMac and a custom-built desktop aren't remotely the same; with the iMac you're paying partly for the form factor. Clearly it's going to cost more to produce a computer which integrates the components into such a small space than to put off-the-shelf components into a standard black box. Hence why your average ultrabook (Apple or otherwise) costs more than a much larger laptop with similar specs.

You're falling down because you assume that two products with the same tech specs must be equivalent and should be equivalently priced. That really isn't true. It's in areas other than pure specs that manufacturers add value. Suggesting that one product must be better than another simply because it has a faster CPU, etc. is ludicrous.

You also shouldn't be so quick to denigrate the 'pretty case' of a product like the iMac. What's so special about specs which can be measured in Ghz, which makes them much more important than user experience benefits like the case and form factor? You do realise that most buyers don't really care that there's another computer with a faster CPU than the iMac, but they do care that it's an attractive product which is nice to use and suits their home or office? Being critical of those who don't base their buying decisions on internal components just smacks of tech snobbery.

 

[NirK]

I should have just given up about 3 pages ago really.... The simple point I have been repeating all along is that I think apple is overpriced in terms of the actual hardware you get for the money. Form factor, pretty case, logo whatever.... I don't care... It is all overpriced.

 

[NirK]

That's also a poor example.

An iMac and a custom-built desktop aren't remotely the same; with the iMac you're paying partly for the form factor. Clearly it's going to cost more to produce a computer which integrates the components into such a small space than to put off-the-shelf components into a standard black box. Hence why your average ultrabook (Apple or otherwise) costs more than a much larger laptop with similar specs.

You're falling down because you assume that two products with the same tech specs must be equivalent and should be equivalently priced. That really isn't true. It's in areas other than pure specs that manufacturers add value. Suggesting that one product must be better than another simply because it has a faster CPU, etc. is ludicrous.

UURRRGGGHHHHH!!!! This is why I specced a mac pro in the first place then you (or someone) asked for more examples!!!!

 

[Mattus]

The simple point I have been repeating all along is that I think apple is overpriced in terms of the actual hardware you get for the money.

And the simple point I'm making is that the value in tech products doesn't exist solely in the internal components.

If you're not willing to pay any more for qualitative benefits like aesthetics and form factor, then you must understand that you're very different to most consumers.

Lots of people really don't care what 'actual hardware' is in their computer. Why should they? What benefits the average user more - an attractive design and portable form factor, or an extra 400MHz on the CPU?

 

[NirK]

And the simple point I'm making is that the value in tech products doesn't exist solely in the internal components.

If you're not willing to pay any more for qualitative benefits like aesthetics and form factor, then you must understand that you're very different to most consumers.

Lots of people really don't care what 'actual hardware' is in their computer. Why should they? What benefits the average user more - an attractive design and portable form factor, or an extra 400MHz on the CPU?

The computer I speced originally had a Corsair Obsidian 800D case which in my opinion looks nicer than the apple cases. Apple stuff looks alright but not worth the money. Personally I prefer the look of a lian li or corsair case to the apple cases. Apple is not very good value for money unless you love the styling which in my opinion is OK but not great.

 

[Neodite]

A better example would be a mac mini to a micro form PC if you want to do a price compare.

The fact is, apple is overpriced for what you get, but some people prefer it so pay it (Obviously as apple would be out of business)

Not sure how people preferring something makes it not overpriced, pretty silly thing to say IMO.

Fact is you can not do anything on OSX that you cannot do on windows (Same with iOS/Android) In fact you can do more on android and windows.

This is coming from someone that uses OSX at home and has an iPhone 5.

 

[Neodite]

Mac Mini

2.5GHz Mac mini

2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
4GB memory
500GB hard drive1
Intel HD Graphics 4000
OS X Mountain Lion

£499.00

Windows mini PC

3.0GHz quad-core Intel Core i5
4GB memory
500GB hard drive1
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Windows 8

£397.94 (I did include case and psu in the price btw)

*EDIT* I have no idea if the mac mini has built in wifi? So may need to add a tiny bit more to the windows version if it does

 

[NirK]

This appears to be an objective response? wtf? didnt expect that!

 

[Neodite]

Is that just parts you've put in a shopping list to get a Windows price?

http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_mini

So you'd need to add wifi (b/g/n, obvs), Bluetooth, 4xUSB3 ports, Firewire800, HDMI port (unless that's built into the graphics card?! + DVI adapter included ), SDXC card slot, sound card(?!), etc. Presumably all that's worth a minimal amount, though.

Yes the USB3 and HDMI is built in (The motherboard tho as with the mac mini it has no dedicated GPU) Same with sound.

So you need to add, wifi, bluetooth and SD card slot, so yes, very minimal pennys depending on how decent you wanted to go

About £15-20 extra

 

[Neodite]

How fugly and noisy will the above Windows one be, out of interest? And I think it's fair to include some value for the Thunderbolt functionality, as that's not too shabby. I suppose a Mac Mini would retain value more than a Windows 'product', too (does that sound like I'm clutching at straws? Ha!)

Your right they do hold value better (One reason for me getting an iPhone 5, as do not plan to keep it for long)
*EDIT* Main reason for getting the iPhone 5, I had a note 2 and a galaxy tab 2 7" and seemed pointless having two large devices, so did a straight swap for the ip5

I was just suggesting the other guy uses the mac mini as a compare, as nearly £100 is a lot of money when you are spending sub £500.

But the holding value could change at any time, and would be a little crazy to factor that into a purchase.

 

[NirK]

People seem to think that for some reason apple computers have magic parts which are somehow better? Most of those things except thunderbolt are just bog standard things that come on any motherboard etc. Also you can get a case which looks better than apple anyway... Lian li, corsair etc. Custom built PC are common nowadays there are many retailers that will allow you to build to your own spec. The result is cheaper, faster and better than apple computers. Even cheaper you can buy the parts and build yourself obviously but we are comparing ready built systems.

 

[NirK]

So we now have 4 examples ranging from mac mini, iphone, imac and mac pro. Can we agree that apple are overpriced now? Not bad, just overpriced.

Another example for you of apple being over priced...

ipod shuffle 4GB - £60

Sansa Clip with 32Gb micro SD, screen, better sound quality etc. - £45

 

[Freddie1980]

Yep I agree iphone5 is nice phone but it is overpriced and lacks some features it really should have at that price. I mean no expandable memory at £530? what a joke.. My sansa clip mp3 player cost £40 and it has MicroSD. More greedy money making tactics from apple...

I have to disagree with the last point. If people choose to pay for a phone without expandable memory then they only have themseleves to blame.

 

[NirK]

The only reason they did not include expandable memory slot is to force you to buy the models with higher onboard memory at a massive price jump which is not proportionate to the cost of memory.... This is something which is in no way good for the consumer but is good for profit margins...

This would make the lower priced phones such as samsung s3, HTC, whatever else even better value because a 32Gb Iphone 5 is £600 whereas £20 for a 32Gb or £40 for a 64Gb MicroSD card is nothing.

Iphone 5 - 16Gb £529
Iphone 5 - 32Gb £599
Iphone 5 - 64Gb £699

Iphone 5 64Gb edition - £699 LOL.... Thats £170 for 48Gb of memory.... 64Gb microSD card = £40

Samsung S3 + 64Gb microSD (80Gb total memory) - £380

 

[Schizo]

I'm not losing interest but fancy something different,I've had iPhones for 4 years and fancy something different,I'll be getting the galaxy s4 in July.

 

[peter_hutson]

No offence to the people discussing the "value" of apple products, but it is such a subjective thing that the whole point becomes somewhat meaningless.

When establishing the value of a product an individual has to take into account the features they want, and other factors that they value (warranty, form factor, Brand, the list goes on and on). The other side of the equation is cost, which is also subjective as it is relative to the free income you have. To someone with lots of disposable income the small bump in desirable features may be worth the large percentage increase in price over the competitor’s product. For example, I have quite a few apple products, which the iphone integrates seamlessly with without much hassle. I have very little free time, hence I don’t want to spend what little time I do have setting things up. Therefore to me, the iphone is worth a premium.

All anyone can say is that phone “X” is not worth it to them.

I consider the iphone to be good value. It does everything I want it to do, the warranty support is great and it integrates well with my other apple products. This to me justifies the price. But I accept that to the next person, it may appear overpriced and limited.

But such statements as “The “inset any handset” is overpriced” shows a complete lack of understanding of how a product attains its value and the differing needs of other people.

Some people are sheep and do nothing other than follow the crowd, but many make informed judgements. Sheep also exists on both sides of the Samsung, Apple divide. I’ve heard just as often from the Samsung crowd that all Apple products are pish, without any clear justification as I’ve heard the opposite from Apple fans. They’re no different from the group of emo’s all dressed alike criticising the everyone else for dressing the same. Feel free to insert Apple or Samsung fan into either role!

 

[Neodite]

No offence to the people discussing the "value" of apple products, but it is such a subjective thing that the whole point becomes somewhat meaningless.

When establishing the value of a product an individual has to take into account the features they want, and other factors that they value (warranty, form factor, Brand, the list goes on and on). The other side of the equation is cost, which is also subjective as it is relative to the free income you have. To someone with lots of disposable income the small bump in desirable features may be worth the large percentage increase in price over the competitor’s product. For example, I have quite a few apple products, which the iphone integrates seamlessly with without much hassle. I have very little free time, hence I don’t want to spend what little time I do have setting things up. Therefore to me, the iphone is worth a premium.

All anyone can say is that phone “X” is not worth it to them.

I consider the iphone to be good value. It does everything I want it to do, the warranty support is great and it integrates well with my other apple products. This to me justifies the price. But I accept that to the next person, it may appear overpriced and limited.

But such statements as “The “inset any handset” is overpriced” shows a complete lack of understanding of how a product attains its value and the differing needs of other people.

Some people are sheep and do nothing other than follow the crowd, but many make informed judgements. Sheep also exists on both sides of the Samsung, Apple divide. I’ve heard just as often from the Samsung crowd that all Apple products are pish, without any clear justification as I’ve heard the opposite from Apple fans. They’re no different from the group of emo’s all dressed alike criticising the everyone else for dressing the same. Feel free to insert Apple or Samsung fan into either role!

Probably one of the most sensible posts I have seen in this sub forum

BUT saying the iPhone integrates with little hassle is not a 'feature' to iPhones, both android and windows do the same thing, and in some cases better, but people know about what they have not things they do not which is obviously understandable.

*EDIT*

As an example, a google account, so much bliss I had from having everything being synced to everything I used (Documents, spreadsheets, calender, contacts, online storage, notes, tasks, mail, chat, wallet, music, movies, books, bookmarks, the list goes on), you can sort of do the same with iPhone thanks to apps, I just wish apple would add it so once you add the google account you do not have to sign in on every new app you get. (I believe they already did this with Facebook?)

 

[peter_hutson]

The only reason they did not include expandable memory slot is to force you to buy the models with higher onboard memory at a massive price jump which is not proportionate to the cost of memory.... This is something which is in no way good for the consumer but is good for profit margins...

You need to break the link in your head between what a product costs a company and what they charge. An item is only worth what someone else is willing to pay. In this case, the consumer pays more per mb for incremental memory than say samsung. But equally they are guaranteed that they will not have memory performance issues. Which is best? There is no right answer.

It's also wrong to say this is not good for the consumer. As it is the consumer that makes the choice, if it is truely bad for them, they will buy a different produict. It's the market that decides what an incremental featutre is worth.

 

[theheyes]

In this case, the consumer pays more per mb for incremental memory than say samsung. But equally they are guaranteed that they will not have memory performance issues. Which is best? There is no right answer.

Excuse me if I'm being ignorant or this has been discussed previously in the thread, but what sort of memory performance issues are we talking about? What guarantee does an Apple product have over a Samsung product with increasing memory?

 

[peter_hutson]

Excuse me if I'm being ignorant or this has been discussed previously in the thread, but what sort of memory performance issues are we talking about? What guarantee does an Apple product have over a Samsung product with increasing memory?

I believe it's to do with the quality a speed of the memory (I'm no expert). This is not a problem with imbedded memory, but rather expansion through SD slots. Cheap and sometimes poor quality cards can result in a drop in performance (or so the wise interweb tells me), I can say I've experienced this with cameras.

You can view this in two ways:

1) Apple wants to guarantee the quality of the user experience and prevent reputation damage by apps performing poorly due to poor expansion cards.
2) They are just using it to increase profit.

In reality it's probably a mix of the two. With the consumer being left to make the choice (along with many other factors) as to whether this is a benefit or restriction that they are happy with.