Then you are likely entitled working tax credit. If you are over 25, or 16 with a child.
Poundland Girl Wins Forced Labour Ruling
- Thread starter CosmicClown
- Start date
Then you are likely entitled working tax credit. If you are over 25, or 16 with a child.
It's an example only to show something that is possible; nothing more.
I agree that for some people it is entirely pointless and in no way helpful. Especially for the people who, as has been said previously, are genuinely trying to work and failing.
Given that my own age is 26, I tend to look at this scheme as applying to my age group rather than everyone. I agree with your points about pushing those who have done nothing towards it. I also think that the scheme needs to be far more tailored so as to get people into the areas where they have experience, even if it is a lower level. Whether this is at the government level or at the job centre level, I don't know. There are however also those people who are quite happy to take advantage of the system which is a point that needs to be addressed. Issue with such a scheme is, someone will get caught in the crossfire whichever way you go. Which side is better to lean on, is debateable.
As you said, there aren't enough jobs simply put and that is an issue. Though given that almost every country in the world faces that issue, not an easy solve.
Things must be very tight for you financially then.
Of course it is not forced labour, but (as I will continue to argue and repeat) it's not even free labour, since it's conditionally interconnected to receiving benefits. The claimants were previously paid that money to seek employment and because they failed to find one, they are now paid that money to go through basic training preparing them to do most basic jobs.
spakingtexan's mission to convince the world the scheme is exploitative and illegal is waisted effort and counter productive, as there is no proof or legal precedence that could back up this claim. Companies might back down temporarily and withdraw from the scheme, but ultimately it will be only because they will be afraid of rioting and lynching and not because they agree with The Couch Potato Militia mob, which by sparkingtexan's own admission is very much ready to do property damage should their flawed propaganda failed to scare wider audience into submission.
At the end of the day, the scheme, regardless of its flaws and faults, is trying to resolve the problem of unemployment leading to lifestyle choices revolving around benefits system, and as such, as a whole, it can only create good, even if every now and then small percent of genuinely shy and introvert talented individuals awaiting last minute phone call from Silicon Valley will have to "suffer" through a "nightmare" of standing for four weeks propped against shelves at a high street retailer.
We all knew benefits system will have to change in our lifetime because in UK it works in reverse. Forcing people to do menial jobs, awakes them to the fact claiming benefits for more than 12 months is no longer accepted by society. It should have never been accepted, it will never be accepted. In similar way, bedroom tax will awake large proportion of the claiming nation to the fact occupying three bedroom properties, for free, till the end of your life, is no longer an option. And it should not be. You were given roof over your head for free when you needed, now someone else needs it and it's surplus to your requirements. You didn't pay for it, it's not yours, you don't get to keep it. Of course in both schemes, there will be a small percentage of "exotic" cases where it won't work, parents with shared custody, disabled, etc, but as a whole, both programs are the correct way to go about the problem at hand. It's much better to fix those issues retrospectively, than collapse the entire project just because of few exceptions.
The only way you could not support a scheme that forces people to do some work for the money they receive or not keep multi-bedroom council houses when they live alone, is if you thought that someone not working or earning peanuts should be entitled to indefinite freeloading lifestyle at cost to taxpayer or if you were yourself entangled in that lifestyle, at which point the discussion is completely pointless. Turkey, Christmas, Voting.
Until the last foreign accent disappears from retail shops, cafes, restaurant kitchens, orchards and fields, packaging plants, supermarket tills and other unskilled employment places, your fairytale of no jobs left will remain just that. If 600,000 Poles can get tax paying jobs within 14 days from stepping off the ferry, so can JSA sponsored native masses in England, Wales and Scotland. You just need to stop being so precious about it. End of.
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so tesco, asda and everyone is paying someone somewhere money for having benefit claimants in their stores ?
no one is disputing people are being paid benefits while working, its the fact that HUGE private companies are paying nothing for all of this free staff. hence its free labor. now if they paid something to the workers be it travel expenses it would be something, but they dont even do that.
I think we all agree this is the biggest drawback of this scheme. The fact that private companies are involved. But as I said earlier, organising public alternative would costs far more money, require permanent, long term structures and posts and probably create bigger resistance (prop shelves at Poundland vs pick rubbish from ditches around A2 in yellow vest on rainy day).
Large private companies like Asda, Tesco or Poundland would quickly withdraw from any pay scheme as the "placement" positions by default, are manned by workforce that is initially unwilling, untrained and they do not exactly have any say in who they receive from the creme-de-la-creme section of the long term unemployed pool. It's their risk, their insurance, their invested time, their supervision, for a minimal benefit of their shelves being, eventually, stacked.
We can argue, whether those positions now take bread off the tables of temp workers or agency staff, but at the end of the day it's all about balance.
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Welfare Reform Is Costing A Fortune IDS Admits – And It’s Barely Even Begun
Posted on March 31, 2013 by johnny void | 14 Comments
The Daily Telegraph managed to bludgeon together a front page story yesterday after Iain Duncan Smith’s panicky response to hecklers in Glasgow recently.
The hapless Secretary of State claimed the Government had given up trying to cut welfare spending and was now managing the rise in expenditure. This was after a speech he gave was interrupted by protesters causing a flustered IDS to go off message and give a hint of the truth behind his shambolic welfare reforms.
For once in his life Iain Duncan Smith was telling the truth. Welfare spending is rising, but that’s only down to his bungled back of the envelope schemes along with the equally incompetent George Osborne’s mismanagement of the economy.
It is hardly surprising for example that the Housing Benefit bill is soaring when Westminster Council are now housing homeless families, evicted due to the housing benefit cap, in 3 grand a week hotels.
It is little wonder that spending on in-work benefits is also rising when the so called fall in unemployment has really been an increase in workfare, part time jobs, zero hours contracts and tax credit funded self-employment. On top of this some Jobcentres stand accused of encouraging employers to convert real jobs to workfare, whilst the Work Programme seems to be causing, not curing unemployment.
£6 billion is budgeted to be handed out to the very companies causing the Work Programme shambles. Hundreds of millions more are being doled out to Atos who carry out the notorious assessments for sickness and disability benefits. All that happens to those found ‘fit for work’ is that they are moved from sickness benefits to the dole. Whilst this loss – of around just under £30 a week for most – can prove devastating for claimants, the saving to the tax payer is virtually wiped out by the cost of both the assessments and the hundreds of thousands of successful appeals against the company’s decisions.
The benefit bill is rising, but it’s not claimants who will see the money. Quite the opposite is happening and it’s going to get worse. Some victims of the bedroom tax and council tax benefit reform may see their £71 a week (or just £56.25 for younger claimants) Jobseekers Allowance almost cut in half next month. After paying for basic utilities, rent and council tax many people are going to be left with no money at all to buy food. The long term cost of the homelessness, child poverty, ill health and family breakdown that this will cause can barely even be guessed at.
Still at least IT companies are being handed £2 billion a year to implement Universal Credit – half the amount spent annually on Jobseekers Allowance for those unemployed. And this is already starting to look like money down the drain. Monster Jobs even managed to scrounge almost £20 million to build a job search website that is little more than a spammer and scammer’s paradise with all too real safety concerns that may one day result in tragedy.
Once again the DWP are mired in industrial action after the shabby way they treat their own staff. Meanwhile £1 million in back dated wages is set to be paid out after Iain Duncan Smith illegally sacked thousands of Jobcentre workers.
The DWP’s attempt to pay fast and loose with the Courts has already led to rushed concessions to the bedroom tax, which faces even more legal challenges. And as unemployment began to rise again this month, half the DWP management were scrambling to cover up for ministerial lies about benefit sanction league tables, whilst Iain Duncan Smith was busy retrospectively changing the law after another legal blunder. The legal bill alone at the DWP must be costing a fortune.
As for the skiving and rarely seen Employment Minister Mark Hoban, we seem to be paying him to sit at home all day on his silk cushions and watch his no doubt tax payer funded plasma TV.
Welfare reform is certainly hurting, but it isn’t working. But don’t expect this Government to change track. It is Iain Duncan Smith’s arrogance that is costing tax payers billions of pounds. His deluded obsession that unemployment is caused by unemployed people and bodged response to every shrill benefit bashing headline in the gutter right wing press is costing us all a fortune.
Welfare spending is soaring, but still the safety net of the welfare state is disappearing. Rarely has any government department been managed as chaotically as the current mess at the DWP. Yet Iain Duncan Smith ploughs on regardless, impoverishing those who already had nothing whilst handing out billions to the private sector poverty pimps living the high life on the welfare reform gravy train.
http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/
Posted on March 31, 2013 by johnny void | 14 Comments
The Daily Telegraph managed to bludgeon together a front page story yesterday after Iain Duncan Smith’s panicky response to hecklers in Glasgow recently.
The hapless Secretary of State claimed the Government had given up trying to cut welfare spending and was now managing the rise in expenditure. This was after a speech he gave was interrupted by protesters causing a flustered IDS to go off message and give a hint of the truth behind his shambolic welfare reforms.
For once in his life Iain Duncan Smith was telling the truth. Welfare spending is rising, but that’s only down to his bungled back of the envelope schemes along with the equally incompetent George Osborne’s mismanagement of the economy.
It is hardly surprising for example that the Housing Benefit bill is soaring when Westminster Council are now housing homeless families, evicted due to the housing benefit cap, in 3 grand a week hotels.
It is little wonder that spending on in-work benefits is also rising when the so called fall in unemployment has really been an increase in workfare, part time jobs, zero hours contracts and tax credit funded self-employment. On top of this some Jobcentres stand accused of encouraging employers to convert real jobs to workfare, whilst the Work Programme seems to be causing, not curing unemployment.
£6 billion is budgeted to be handed out to the very companies causing the Work Programme shambles. Hundreds of millions more are being doled out to Atos who carry out the notorious assessments for sickness and disability benefits. All that happens to those found ‘fit for work’ is that they are moved from sickness benefits to the dole. Whilst this loss – of around just under £30 a week for most – can prove devastating for claimants, the saving to the tax payer is virtually wiped out by the cost of both the assessments and the hundreds of thousands of successful appeals against the company’s decisions.
The benefit bill is rising, but it’s not claimants who will see the money. Quite the opposite is happening and it’s going to get worse. Some victims of the bedroom tax and council tax benefit reform may see their £71 a week (or just £56.25 for younger claimants) Jobseekers Allowance almost cut in half next month. After paying for basic utilities, rent and council tax many people are going to be left with no money at all to buy food. The long term cost of the homelessness, child poverty, ill health and family breakdown that this will cause can barely even be guessed at.
Still at least IT companies are being handed £2 billion a year to implement Universal Credit – half the amount spent annually on Jobseekers Allowance for those unemployed. And this is already starting to look like money down the drain. Monster Jobs even managed to scrounge almost £20 million to build a job search website that is little more than a spammer and scammer’s paradise with all too real safety concerns that may one day result in tragedy.
Once again the DWP are mired in industrial action after the shabby way they treat their own staff. Meanwhile £1 million in back dated wages is set to be paid out after Iain Duncan Smith illegally sacked thousands of Jobcentre workers.
The DWP’s attempt to pay fast and loose with the Courts has already led to rushed concessions to the bedroom tax, which faces even more legal challenges. And as unemployment began to rise again this month, half the DWP management were scrambling to cover up for ministerial lies about benefit sanction league tables, whilst Iain Duncan Smith was busy retrospectively changing the law after another legal blunder. The legal bill alone at the DWP must be costing a fortune.
As for the skiving and rarely seen Employment Minister Mark Hoban, we seem to be paying him to sit at home all day on his silk cushions and watch his no doubt tax payer funded plasma TV.
Welfare reform is certainly hurting, but it isn’t working. But don’t expect this Government to change track. It is Iain Duncan Smith’s arrogance that is costing tax payers billions of pounds. His deluded obsession that unemployment is caused by unemployed people and bodged response to every shrill benefit bashing headline in the gutter right wing press is costing us all a fortune.
Welfare spending is soaring, but still the safety net of the welfare state is disappearing. Rarely has any government department been managed as chaotically as the current mess at the DWP. Yet Iain Duncan Smith ploughs on regardless, impoverishing those who already had nothing whilst handing out billions to the private sector poverty pimps living the high life on the welfare reform gravy train.
http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/
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AND
HEREEE WE GO....
IDS is a moron, and all these welfare reforms are stupid. Igneus get 12k commission if they find you a job? LOLOL? U CEREAL
BRB fail.
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No, I'm not. Working tax credit kicks in at about £13K unless you get other benefits for whatever reason (children, etc). Above that, you're on your own. Why do you think I'm likely to be entitled to working tax credit?
I'd get it if I worked fewer hours - 30 instead of 40. I'd probably be able to get other benefits as well, since they tend to clump together. I might even be able to get more money for working fewer hours. I'd be better off, certainly, because the reduction in work would mean I had more life.
I work 40 hours per week, as I have done for the last 22 years.
You class me (and all the others like me) as a couch potato militia mob member advocating that I be given everything for free from public money.
You are either utterly ignorant of the subject or you're lying for the purposes of propaganda.
I think you misread something and you skipped a page and became very confused by posts in this thread.
You definitely misread something and/or are confused. Press "search this thread" button, type "spankingtexan". This is what lying for the purposes of propaganda and ignorance looks like.
I've read the thread already, thanks. Including your posts and spankingtexan's posts. Yours bear no resemblence to reality and contain false statements about many aspects of the schemes, even simple numbers such as the duration of them.
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I think my posts on the boycott workfare campaign are really rattling some people, the effectiveness of it is clearly packing a punch. If my posts just get one person to contact one of those company's complaining who other wise wouldn't of then I have done my job.
http://www.boycottworkfare.org/
http://www.boycottworkfare.org/
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No, you are to this thread what Cosogenisis was to the climate change thread.
I was about to say that, spankingtexan's propaganda methodology is so alike cosmogenesis' fingers in ears "na-na-na-na-I-can-not-hear-you" discussion method I think they must be the same person.
Anglion said:
So, as long as it props your worldview, you are willing to overlook posts that are just pure admissions of militant criminal activities, reposts of weird, last century in tone propaganda manifestos, blatant lies and misleading half truths that are not supported by any legal precedence and not reflecting actual court verdicts in this particular matter but my posts "bear no resemblance to reality" because you didn't like what I apparently provided as durations of the scheme? Come on, Anglion, you are better than this. You can't be sitting in a foxhole next to spankingtexan - practically a cross between Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf and Giorgio Tsoukalos of the alternative universe social injustice brigade then do Donald Sutherland meme at some little ad-hoc detail in opposite sides post.
Post, which btw, as always, is factually correct - the regular length for both Mandatory Work Activity while on JSA and Participation in Work Programme is up to four weeks.
I'm happy to discuss my beef with the "Coach Potato Militia" movement further with you, but it has to be respectful, fact based discourse, not some aggressive one liner hit and run stand offs.
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5000 People With Cancer Declared Fit For Work Boasts Grant Shapps
Posted on March 31, 2013 by johnny void | 118 Comments
shapps_****edInternet con-man Grant Shapps has been crawling all over the papers today as the Government used Easter Sunday to launch an all out attack on sick and disabled people.
Tory party chairman Shapps claims in the Telegraph today that he will do his job from the pub from now on and his bizarre diatribe suggests that he’s already well on the way to being ****ed. The notorious get rich quick scammer rants that sickness benefits are ‘evil’ whilst brandishing figures attempting to smear all those out of work due to illness or disability as scroungers.
Once again the Tories are suggesting that most claims for Employment Support Allowance are not genuine based simply on the fact that many people give up a claim for ESA before they are assessed. This is the exact same trick that the DWP tried to pull last year which simply reveals that for many people sickness is temporary and when they get better they end their claims.
Digging into the numbers however reveals some tragic statistics. Shapps’ pub bore rhetoric is based on figures which breakdown claims for ESA by condition, and provide details of the results of their assessments.
They make for depressing reading. Almost 5000 people with cancer were found ‘fit for work’ between 2008 and 2011, including ten people with malignant brain tumours. Over 1000 people diagnosed with schizophrenia were also deemed scroungers and had benefits stopped.
Two and a half thousand people with MS were found fit for workfare if not paid work and placed in the Work Related Activity Group. A further 800 MS sufferers were thrown off sickness benefits altogether.
Confirming that many claims are temporary in nature, the figures include many people who had broken a limb or suffered some other short term injury or condition. Unsurprisingly many of this group came off benefits before being assessed which can take place several months after making an initial claim.
There are many other reasons a claim might stop before an assessment takes place. Claimants could marry someone and no longer be eligible, or in many cases reach retirement age.
In a predictable spittle-flecked outburst, the right wing press have crowed that almost 10,000 people whose primary conditions was associated with drug use ended their claim before assessment, A similar number were found fit for work – as if employers are suddenly rushing to hire currently using heroin addicts.
Whilst some of this group may have stopped using drugs and therefore ended their claim, some may have found themselves in prison. Others may have slipped out of the benefits system completely due to the chaotic nature of their condition. Some will probably have died from an overdose before the assessment took place.
And it is this that reveals the truly nasty face of this Government. Around 14,000 people with cancer ended their claim before they were assessed. It should be hoped that this is because many of them went into long term remission. The sad truth is that some of them will have died whilst awaiting a benefit decision.
It is these tragic deaths that the vile Tory party are only too happy to exploit in an attempt to prove that half of people on sickness benefits were faking their conditions. They truly are beneath contempt.
http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/
Posted on March 31, 2013 by johnny void | 118 Comments
shapps_****edInternet con-man Grant Shapps has been crawling all over the papers today as the Government used Easter Sunday to launch an all out attack on sick and disabled people.
Tory party chairman Shapps claims in the Telegraph today that he will do his job from the pub from now on and his bizarre diatribe suggests that he’s already well on the way to being ****ed. The notorious get rich quick scammer rants that sickness benefits are ‘evil’ whilst brandishing figures attempting to smear all those out of work due to illness or disability as scroungers.
Once again the Tories are suggesting that most claims for Employment Support Allowance are not genuine based simply on the fact that many people give up a claim for ESA before they are assessed. This is the exact same trick that the DWP tried to pull last year which simply reveals that for many people sickness is temporary and when they get better they end their claims.
Digging into the numbers however reveals some tragic statistics. Shapps’ pub bore rhetoric is based on figures which breakdown claims for ESA by condition, and provide details of the results of their assessments.
They make for depressing reading. Almost 5000 people with cancer were found ‘fit for work’ between 2008 and 2011, including ten people with malignant brain tumours. Over 1000 people diagnosed with schizophrenia were also deemed scroungers and had benefits stopped.
Two and a half thousand people with MS were found fit for workfare if not paid work and placed in the Work Related Activity Group. A further 800 MS sufferers were thrown off sickness benefits altogether.
Confirming that many claims are temporary in nature, the figures include many people who had broken a limb or suffered some other short term injury or condition. Unsurprisingly many of this group came off benefits before being assessed which can take place several months after making an initial claim.
There are many other reasons a claim might stop before an assessment takes place. Claimants could marry someone and no longer be eligible, or in many cases reach retirement age.
In a predictable spittle-flecked outburst, the right wing press have crowed that almost 10,000 people whose primary conditions was associated with drug use ended their claim before assessment, A similar number were found fit for work – as if employers are suddenly rushing to hire currently using heroin addicts.
Whilst some of this group may have stopped using drugs and therefore ended their claim, some may have found themselves in prison. Others may have slipped out of the benefits system completely due to the chaotic nature of their condition. Some will probably have died from an overdose before the assessment took place.
And it is this that reveals the truly nasty face of this Government. Around 14,000 people with cancer ended their claim before they were assessed. It should be hoped that this is because many of them went into long term remission. The sad truth is that some of them will have died whilst awaiting a benefit decision.
It is these tragic deaths that the vile Tory party are only too happy to exploit in an attempt to prove that half of people on sickness benefits were faking their conditions. They truly are beneath contempt.
http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/
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Iain Duncan Smith says he could live on £53 a week.
Lets hold him to it then, sign the petition...
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/iain-duncan-smith-iain-duncan-smith-to-live-on-53-a-week
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...mith-i-could-get-by-on-53-a-week-8556002.html
I hope that includes him stacking shelves in a supermarket for it too. He could do it at Morrisons under Cait Reilly's supervision.
Lets hold him to it then, sign the petition...
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/iain-duncan-smith-iain-duncan-smith-to-live-on-53-a-week
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...mith-i-could-get-by-on-53-a-week-8556002.html
I hope that includes him stacking shelves in a supermarket for it too. He could do it at Morrisons under Cait Reilly's supervision.
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