Bedroom tax

[cainer]

My old nan is going to be hit by this.

She has lived in the same 3 bed council house pretty much all of her life but now its just her and my aunt.

The thing is they have been on a waiting list for a smaller property for several years now but the council can't find one and now they're being punished.
They'd love to move out as its far too big for them and expensive to heat but they have nowhere to go!

Just doesn't seem like this policy has been thought out at all.

iirc it doesnt effect retired people

 

[campbell]

This cut on housing benefit is terrible. Anyone in favor of this cut must either be sick or have a massive chip of their shoulder.

In Scotland this will effect 100000 odd people - 79% of which are disabled. It is a cut directed at some of the most vulnerable people in our society.

I would consider myself being from a privileged upbringing - no silver spoon but did not want for anything. I believe it is the duty of those better off to support the people that need it.

On another note - when the SNP announced the referendum on Scottish Independence I was dead set against it. After this I have re-assessed my positioning to be on neither side of the fence. If it means becoming independent and raising taxes to protect the most vulnerable people so be it.

 

[Vern1961]

As a taxpayer and homeowner (well, mortgage holder) I'm all for ensuring welfare is targeted at those who need it but there are many reasons why single people or couples could need the extra room. Maybe they are disabled and have carer(s) that come and stay overnight to help them. Maybe one of the individuals has a medical condition (something as simple as chronic snoring) which prevents them sleeping in the same room.

And don't think this is just going to stop with benefit claimants. At what point does this useless Government decide to target citizens in work, not claiming benefit of any kind and some anonymous official decides they have too much space. "Ah Mr & Mrs Vern, we see you live in a three bedroom detached house but as a middle aged couple with no children or relatives left alive to visit, we deem you don't need all that space. Move to a one bedroom flat (at your own expense) or start paying £50 a month more council tax. What you do with your cat and all your possessions isn't our problem."

Believe it could and possibly would happen. And just pray no one in a position of authority has been playing Deus Ex, or they might decide building a few pod style dormitories offers an ideal solution.

Election please, though I'm at a loss who the hell we vote for.

 

[Biohazard]

As far as I can tell the Yes Scotland propaganda machine would turn up to protest the closure of a crack house if they thought they could pin the closure as a move by Westminster to oppress the Scots.

Yes progaganda machine; what's the Better Together campaign then? Is that too propaganda or a legitimate organisation?

Or do these pejorative titles only swing one way?

I think the accusatory culture with the Better Together campaign is a lot more distasteful than any correlation you are happy to draw between drug addicts and our most vurnerable demographics coming under sustained attack;

Better Together Campaigner - "Lord Foulkes".

Propaganda you say?

 

[Biohazard]

Iain Duncan Smith: I could live on £53 a week

IAIN Duncan Smith, the UK minister behind the bedroom tax and controversial overhaul of the welfare system, has sparked fury by insisting he could live on £53 a week.

His claim angered anti-poverty campaigners in Scotland, who said the former Tory leader, who lives rent-free in an aristocratic country house, was out of touch with reality.

The Work and Pensions Secretary was forced to reject claims he was “slashing” benefits for the most needy and said he was making it fairer by giving people the chance to “break free” of welfare.

Ministers launched a fightback yesterday as the changes came into force. They will see more than 100,000 families in Scotland in social housing, deemed to have a spare room, lose an average of £600 a year through housing benefit cuts.

The change is part of a package of significant welfare and tax changes coming into force this month, which opponents say will hit poor families and the disabled particularly hard. Mr Duncan Smith, whose ministerial salary is equivalent to about £1,600 a week after tax, was defending the changes when he was confronted by the case of a market trader whose income had fallen to £53 a week after benefit cuts.

Asked whether he could live on that weekly sum, the former army officer, who married into a wealthy family, replied: “If I had to, I would.”

But Des Loughney of Edinburgh TUC, part of a coalition of community groups in the capital opposing the bedroom tax, dismissed the claim.

“It was a stupid thing to say and patently not true,” he said.

“It’s difficult to live independently just on your own for less than £100 a week these days. It’s a ridiculous thing to say and you wonder why politicians make such statements.”

Sean Clerkin, of the Citizens United Against Public Sector Cuts campaign group, said: “You cannot live on £53 a week. The bottom line is you would either freeze or starve – it’s one or the other. Who could live off that – it’s impossible.”

Colin Fox, leader of the Scottish Socialist Party, said he thought it had been an “April Fools’ Day joke” when he first heard the Work and Pensions Secretary’s claim.

“Iain Duncan Smith is making himself a laughing stock,” he said.

“There’s nobody in the country who thinks he could live off £53 a day. MPs like him are so far out of touch they’re in the stratosphere.”

On Saturday, working-age benefits and tax credits will be cut in real terms with the first of three years of maximum 1 per cent rises – well below the present rate of inflation.

Two days later, disability living allowance begins to be replaced by the personal independence payment, which charities say will remove support from many people in real need.

During yesterday, more than 21,000 people signed a petition on the change.org website, calling for Mr Duncan Smith to “prove” he could survive on £53 a week.

The text urged him to “live on this budget for at least one year”.

But the minister insisted the government was only trying to get welfare “back into order”.

He said: “We are in an economic mess. We inherited a problem where we simply do not have the money to spend on all the things people would like us to do. What I am trying to do is get this so we don’t spend money on things that are unfair.”

He urged critics to get the issue “in perspective”, arguing there was already no funding for extra rooms when people received housing benefit to rent privately.

“They are exactly the same group of people,” he said.

“The reality is taxpayers are subsidising people to live in these homes. They need to be re-assured.”

But Tam Baillie, Scotland’s Commissioner for Children and Young People, said the bedroom tax was in breach of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

“This is another example of children’s rights to best interest and maximum development being ignored,” he said.

“The bedroom tax and other benefit changes will heap misery on families already struggling on the breadline, pulling more children into poverty. Experience and evidence demonstrates the corrosive negative impact this has on children’s social, emotional and mental wellbeing and, as a consequence, their rights.”

In Scotland, SNP councils have pledged not to evict any tenants hit by the bedroom tax if they can show they have made every effort to pay their rents.

The SNP administration at Holyrood believes the unpopular changes will boost support for independence.

Nationalist MSP Jamie Hepburn, who sits on the Scottish Parliament’s welfare reform committee, said: “It is little wonder that people in Scotland simply do not have faith in the current Westminster-operated welfare system.

“We need a system that reflects Scotland’s values – a system that ensures fair and decent support for those that need it most, protecting the vulnerable and supporting households rather than seeing them be subjected to aggressive cuts from Westminster.”

For Labour, shadow chancellor Ed Balls said that, according to the Institute of Fiscal Studies, the poorest 10 per cent of households would lose an average of £127 under this year’s changes, while the richest 10 per cent would gain almost ten times that – £1,265.

Families with children would be hit harder, Mr Balls said, with the poorest 10 per cent losing £236 a year, while the richest 10 per cent gained £3,654 a year.

“It’s appalling, it’s shocking, it’s immoral, it’s shameful, it’s a disgrace, it’s inhumane, it’s just upside down,” he said.

“The bedroom tax is possibly the worst, most cack-handed and massively unfair piece of policy-making I’ve ever seen.”

Ignoring the massive two faced lying hypocrisy from Labour, I agree it's a huge political blunder.

Perhaps if Labour could own up to their own invisible hand in helping it through..

 

[Biohazard]

Good to see IDS, Tories and DWP have their priorities straight;

Alex Neil slams sex offenders bedroom tax loophole

Health Secretary Alex Neil has condemned a loophole that will see sex offenders evade the UK government’s controversial bedroom tax plans.

• Paedophiles and rapists will be exempt from the bedroom tax, according to a DWP whistleblower

• Health Secretary Alex Neil condemns tax as “daft and unfair”

A loophole in the coalition’s new scheme will see thousands of paedophiles and rapists exempted from paying the levy, according to a Department for Work and Pensions whistleblower.

Neil, who was contacted by the anonymous DWP employee, said: “When hard-working people who are being forced to pay the bedroom tax realise that convicted sex offenders are often exempt they will be very angry indeed.

“This just shows how daft and unfair this tax is in the first place and it should be scrapped immediately,” Neil told the Daily Record.

“The tax is riddled with loopholes and contradictions - it doesn’t make any sense to penalise hard-working people in this way.

“It will also force many families out on to the street with nowhere to go.”

According to the DWP source, sex offenders living in large properties will not have their housing benefit cut because they would be unable to let their rooms out to lodgers and are difficult to rehouse.

Neil added that the SNP would scrap the policy if Scots vote for independence next year.

Airdrie councillor Michael Coyle added his voice to the condemnation of the loophole, saying that he was concerned that sex offenders would be given “preferential treatment.”

“I am really worried this money [the DWP has given £10 million in discretionary funds to help vulnerable tenants], which isn’t much when it’s split between all Scotland’s councils, will be used for sex offenders.

“A system that gives preferential treatment to sex offenders is sickening.”

A DWP spokesman refused to comment on the loophole, but said: “With many thousands of people on housing waiting lists, we need to end the spare room subsidy and ensure a better use of social housing.

“Councils in Scotland have been given an extra £10 million this year for discretionary housing payments to help people in difficult situations.”

The bedroom tax, which takes effect from today, is targeted at tenants on housing benefit deemed to have a spare room. Tenants with a spare room face a 14 per cent cut from their housing benefit, and a 25 per cent cut for having two spare rooms.

The government aim to save £23 billion with the scheme and free up living space for overcrowded families while also encouraging people to get jobs.

But critics of the tax have pointed out that there are not enough suitable homes available for families to move into in order to evade the charge.

 

[Castiel]

So the discussion is now a RSS feed?

 

[dowie]

This cut on housing benefit is terrible. Anyone in favor of this cut must either be sick or have a massive chip of their shoulder.

I'm in favour of it - or rather I think its at least a step in the right direction (though the implementation of it perhaps won't run too smoothly).

I think really they need to go further than this to make social housing workable - not just provide disincentives but actually have the power to start removing people from homes with extra bedrooms in order to manage the existing stock better(with obvious measures to ensure elderly aren't moved and/or frequency of moves is controlled).

They should also bring in means testing - there is a big waiting list, people shouldn't have spare rooms or carry on living in social housing while earning a decent wage. Social housing should be assessed based on need and not some socialist fantasy whereby anyone who wants social housing should be entitled to it.

 

[Biohazard]

So the discussion is now a RSS feed?

The thread is whatever people make of it Castiel, they are gambits for discussion.

 

[danielanthony]

If they don't like it then don't claim benefits, I only have a house big enough for my family, I'd love a bigger house for free from the government but I also live in the real world.

 

[Tunney]

If they don't like it then don't claim benefits, I only have a house big enough for my family, I'd love a bigger house for free from the government but I also live in the real world.

The problem is that there simply isn't enough smaller properties for people to move into.

There's around 5,000 families in Cardiff who'll be hit by this but less than 150 1 & 2 bedroom properties on the council's books. Are you willing to pay higher taxes so that more properties can be built?

It's another Tory idea that's been rushed through without any consideration for the logistics or reality of the situation.

 

[Puzzled]

iirc it doesnt effect retired people

Even when my aunt who lives with her works full time and supports her?

I'll get them registered on that homeswappers, so thanks to who suggested that.

 

[Biohazard]

The problem is that there simply isn't enough smaller properties for people to move into.

There's around 5,000 families in Cardiff who'll be hit by this but less than 150 1 & 2 bedroom properties on the council's books. Are you willing to pay higher taxes so that more properties can be built?

It's another Tory idea that's been rushed through without any consideration for the logistics or reality of the situation.

Oh I think they are aware of what they are doing alright.

 

[dowie]

The problem is that there simply isn't enough smaller properties for people to move into.

There's around 5,000 families in Cardiff who'll be hit by this but less than 150 1 & 2 bedroom properties on the council's books. Are you willing to pay higher taxes so that more properties can be built?

It's another Tory idea that's been rushed through without any consideration for the logistics or reality of the situation.

Well its probably been targeted at London/South East tbh...

The cookie cutter approach could well breakdown elsewhere - maybe an idea to devolve responsibility for social housing?

 

[Biohazard]

It has been, which is why it has such disproportionate effects elsehwhere and the assistance funding is completely distorted also. Which again is fine, if London is all you care about. The UK body of politics has left the majority of us behind.

 

[Biohazard]

More fake Labour opposition;

Chancellor George Osborne to defend benefits changes

Chancellor George Osborne is to defend benefits and tax changes, saying "this month we will make work pay".

In a speech on Tuesday, Mr Osborne will say about nine out of 10 working households will be better off.

The shake-up, including cuts to housing benefit for some social housing tenants with a spare room and alterations to council tax, took effect on Monday.

Some churches, charities and campaign groups, as well as the Labour Party, have criticised the changes as unjust.


This month saw the start of sweeping changes across public services including reform of the benefits system.

There was also a major reorganisation of the way the NHS commissions services in England, and the withdrawal of legal aid for thousands of cases in England and Wales including divorce and child custody disputes.

Welfare reform - a key priority for the government - is proving to be the most controversial of the changes.

Mr Osborne argues that the government has had to take difficult decisions to cut the deficit and the current benefits system is fundamentally "broken".

The focus is on changes including:

The introduction of a £26,000 cap on the amount of benefits a household can receive
Cutting corporation tax to help create jobs
Increasing the point at which people begin paying tax to almost £10,000

The chancellor believes the changes to benefits and tax will be fairer and help ensure that the country can live within its means and compete globally.

He also believes the changes have support, saying those who do not agree with him are on the wrong side of the public.

Labour says the reforms will hit the poorest 10% of people hardest while those in the top 10% will gain.

However, Mr Osborne is set to say: "For too long, we've had a system where people who did the right thing - who get up in the morning and work hard - felt penalised for it, while people who did the wrong thing got rewarded for it.

"That's wrong. So this month we're going to put things right.

"This month, around nine out of 10 working households will be better off as a result of the changes we are making. This month we will make work pay."

He will add: "Now, those who defend the current benefit system are going to complain loudly. These vested interests always complain, with depressingly predictable outrage, about every change to a system which is failing.

"I want to take the argument to them. Because defending every line item of welfare spending isn't credible in the current economic environment. Because defending benefits that trap people in poverty and penalise work is defending the indefensible."
Petition started

On Monday, Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith insisted changes to the welfare system were fair.

When asked if he could live on £53 a week, in response to a question posed by a working benefits claimant, Mr Duncan Smith said: "If I had to I would."

Shadow work and pensions secretary Liam Byrne it had been a day of "big winners and big losers".

"You've got millionaires who are getting a whopping great tax cut of £100,000 per year and everyone else is taking a hit to tax credits. We think that basic strategy is simply unfair," he said.

A petition challenging Mr Duncan Smith to prove his claim was setup on the Change.org website.

By 01:00 BST on Tuesday, the petition had been signed by more than 109,000 people.

I think we should start a petition to try and get Labour to tell the truth;

Ian Davidson is a liar

If you click this link, you’ll see some footage of the Labour MP for Glasgow South West, Ian Davidson, at today’s protest against the bedroom tax. The unnamed person with the camera approaches him and confronts him with a direct question.

There seems to be some doubt with regard to the veracity of the answer.

QUESTIONER: “Mr Davidson! You abstained from the [bedroom tax] vote?”

DAVIDSON: “No I didn’t.”

Q: “You didn’t abstain from the vote?”

D: “No.”

Q: “How did you vote?”

D: “I voted No.”

Q: “You voted No?”

D: “Yes, I voted against the government.”

Q: “Did you?”

D: “Yes. So you’ve got that wrong. Thank you.”

Well, that seems absolutely unambiguous. There’s just one problem.

The image above is taken from the Public Whip website, which in turn gets its information from Hansard, the official record of Parliament. And both of those sources state that Ian Davidson was absent from the vote on the bedroom tax that was conducted on Opposition Day on February 27th – along with luminaries like Alistair Darling, Gordon Brown, Tom Harris, Michael McCann and 39 other Labour MPs.

So far as we can establish, the February 27th vote is the only one which has taken place in the Commons on the bedroom tax, or “Under-occupancy penalty” to give it its official title. [EDIT 11.20pm: A reader writes to point out that in fact there was a Commons division on the bill on October 24th last year (column 1047), which was the one that actually put the legislation into place. However, as Mr Davidson didn't vote in that one either, it provides him with no defence.]

The video appears to show that there can be no question of Mr Davidson being misunderstood or quoted out of context in respect of his actions. Either Hansard has made a mistake, or Ian Davidson is lying. We’re sure if it’s the former, Mr Davidson will be contacting the publication urgently for a correction.

Not a lot of credibility left for the chairman of Westminster's committee on Scottish separatism. Not much credibility left for Labour on the issue.

New Labour = Old Tory. Free Scotland.

 

[cainer]

Even when my aunt who lives with her works full time and supports her?

i dont think it matters who lives with her, as its your nan's house and she's retired she wont be effected.
thats my take on things from what ive read, but check up on it yourself to be sure.

 

[Macro]

Perhaps Wee Wreck should redirect some of the taxpayers money he keeps spending on his lavish business trips which just happen to fall on Open Golf dates and business venues just happen to be located next to the relevant golf courses?

Daily Record 27/3/12
Taxpayer sent bill for Salmond's stay at luxury hotel during Open golf trip

ALEX Salmond has been slammed for billing the taxpayer for a five-night stay in a posh hotel while attending a golf tournament.

The First Minister, a keen golfer, stayed in Culloden House, near Inverness, during the Scottish Open at Castle Stuart last year.

Scottish Government officials have refused to say how much the trip cost or if Salmond’s wife, Moira, was also in attendance.

Scottish Labour MSP Patricia Ferguson yesterday wrote to the head of the Scottish civil service, Sir Peter Housden, to question the expense of the trip.

The row follows revelations that Salmond’s trip to the Ryder Cup in Chicago with a delegation of government officials last September cost almost half a million pounds.

Ferguson said: “At a time when families all over the country are tightening their belts, the idea that the First Minister of Scotland is charging them thousands of pounds so he can enjoy the best part of a week at the golf is unbelievable.

“Given the outrageous expense incurred by him and his entourage at the Ryder Cup last year, and the efforts he went to hide it, Alex Salmond is completely out of touch with ordinary Scots facing unemployment, rising energy costs and cuts to services.

“When the First Minister isn’t using his office to run a full-time referendum campaign, it would appear he is using it to fund his lavish hobby as a golf fan. What he clearly isn’t doing is the job he was elected to do, which is protect the people of Scotland from the Tory cuts.”

A spokesman for Salmond said he chose to stay at the hotel during the tournament rather than make a four-and-a-half hour daily round trip from his home in Strichen, Aberdeenshire.

Hurrah for RSS feed threads....

 

[Biohazard]

What the hell has that got to do with the topic in hand?

As for the rest of the story that you conviently forgot to copy and paste;

Taxpayer sent bill for Salmond's stay at luxury hotel during Open golf trip

[continued]

And he stressed that the First Minister had six ministerial meetings with leading business figures during the event.

A Government spokeswoman added: “The First Minister undertook Government business at Castle Stuart and nearby, including business meetings to discuss employment and investment.

“We expect a major jobs announcement soon as a result of these talks.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/taxpayer-sent-bill-salmonds-stay-1787559

I like the selective quoting though!

Try harder.

 

[neocon]

If lots of small cheap houses (1 & 2 bed) were built, wouldn't that damage the housing market. I mean, building houses is like printing money (QE) because we've been using houses as assets.
I just don't believe they will build them, not this decade or the next.

It's a nuclear power station, who wants a council estate built near there house?