Are people starting to lose interest in Apple?

[Doohickey]

Apple Thunderbolt 27" Display £829.99

Same display used in screens costing half the price, yes you are getting a marginally nicer stand and a peice of glass on the front and some crappy built in speakers, does this justify double the price of a Dell or Asus or similar equivalent? From an objective viewpoint - No... From an apple fan viewpoint - probably yes....

Ok let's break this down.

Is the Apple display expensive? Yes. Does it look pretty? Yes. Is it good value? Well that depends on one's concept of 'good value' doesn't it. It's poor value to someone who isn't fussed by the difference between Apple's offering versus equivalent spec alternatives. It's good value to someone who can afford it, and has no qualms in paying a premium for certain unique aspects, even if those aspects come down to aesthetics. Just because you can't justify the price for your own purposes, doesn't make those who can, brainwashed or 'fanboys' :-/

 

[Robbo]

Yes someone did say exactly that. Robbo I think.

Incorrect.

I used the analogy to demonstrate your failure to understand different people's needs.

To simplify it for you, if you are buying a car to, using the common phrase "get you from A to B", why not just get the cheapest one if they all essentially do the same job? What if you want comfort, a certain engine, a certain design, different interior options, etc.

Personal preference. Learn what it is, and what it means. Please.

Ok let's break this down.

Is the Apple display expensive? Yes. Does it look pretty? Yes. Is it good value? Well that depends on one's concept of 'good value' doesn't it. It's poor value to someone who isn't fussed by the difference between Apple's offering versus equivalent spec alternatives. It's good value to someone who can afford it, and has no qualms in paying a premium for certain unique aspects, even if those aspects come down to aesthetics. Just because you can't justify the price for your own purposes, doesn't make those who can, brainwashed or 'fanboys' :-/

Exactly.

 

[Addicted]

Ok let's break this down.

Is the Apple display expensive? Yes. Does it look pretty? Yes. Is it good value? Well that depends on one's concept of 'good value' doesn't it. It's poor value to someone who isn't fussed by the difference between Apple's offering versus equivalent spec alternatives. It's good value to someone who can afford it, and has no qualms in paying a premium for certain unique aspects, even if those aspects come down to aesthetics. Just because you can't justify the price for your own purposes, doesn't make those who can, brainwashed or 'fanboys' :-/

But how is it good value to someone who can afford it when they can get the same thing for half the price, but without the Apple "I'm so cool" badge?

This post makes no sense, value in the sense of being monetary is completely against what you've posted.

Value in terms of features is no different - they're the same product and do the same thing, so no gain here.

 

[Doohickey]

Yes someone did say exactly that. Robbo I think.

Ok I presume you mean this:

Features is entirely subjective. I feel as if you're just saying any old rubbish for the sake of it now.

I suppose you'd apply the same logic to buying a car? Why get a Bentley when a Toyota Yaris will do the same thing? Hell, it might even have an extra feature or two, an extra seat perhaps?

Utter, utter tosh. The fact you keep saying you're "out" and then chime back in with more nonsense just weakens your already terrible argument even further.

No I would buy the bentley because it is clearly much better and has a much better engine etc.

I think you totally missed the point he was making about subjectivity. Not that Apple = Bentley and everything else = Toyota Yaris....

 

[Doohickey]

But how is it good value to someone who can afford it when they can get the same thing for half the price, but without the Apple "I'm so cool" badge?

This post makes no sense, value in the sense of being monetary is completely against what you've posted.

Value in terms of features is no different - they're the same product and do the same thing, so no gain here.

But they're not getting the same thing? If it was identical in appearance, in ergonomics, in specification etc etc then yes. But whatever differences they have, however little or frivolous, even if it comes down to the luxury of having the bloody combined Thunderbolt + MagSafe power cable, or even that the display matches the decor of the room, to those people that this matters to, then this justifies the price for them. It does not mean that the Apple product is categorically better than everything else, or that alternatives are inferior by default, just because they are not Apple.

Edit: Also re: value- this is my point, value is not on a completely and purely monetary basis. Value has to take into account individual needs and desires, and often these are not technical. I once bought a USB hub that in appearance matched my laptop. I could have bought a completely bog standard one for less money. I completely accept that this is obviously out of vanity. But it was a price I was happy to pay, and I got exactly what I wanted, and was therefore good value to me. I could have bought the cheaper one and it would have done the exact same thing of course, and in pure monetary terms would have obviously been better value, but not overall because I would have spent money on a product that I wasn't 100% on in the first place.

 

[NirK]

Robbo You cannot seem to grasp the fact that IT IS OVERPRICED.

Yes some people will buy apple and are happy to pay the premium, it is subjective and depends how much money you have etc. I would be happier if people would just say "I agree that apple is expensive, overpriced even, but personally I like them enough to buy the products"...

The same way that, to break it down and make it simple for you, some people would pay £1000 for a designer handbag... Maybe in that persons opinion this product is worth the money and therfore not overpriced but objectively it IS OVERPRICED.

I am not replying to anymore of your posts robbo because you do not seem capable of grasping my point and keep insulting me etc. It is quite simple really....

 

[NirK]

But they're not getting the same thing? If it was identical in appearance, in ergonomics, in specification etc etc then yes. But whatever differences they have, however little or frivolous, even if it comes down to the luxury of having the bloody combined Thunderbolt + MagSafe power cable, or even that the display matches the decor of the room, to those people that this matters to, then this justifies the price for them. It does not mean that the Apple product is categorically better than everything else, or that alternatives are inferior by default, just because they are not Apple.

I think the point is that the actual things you are getting for the money do not justify the price tag other than the apple logo and styling. As I have literally demonstrated 7 times now with different products. Anyway why am I even continuing with this I am going to go and do something fun instead!

 

[Robbo]

You cannot seem to grasp the fact that IT IS OVERPRICED.

Yes some people will buy apple and are happy to pay the premium, it is subjective and depends how much money you have etc. I would be happier if people would just say "I agree that apple is expensive, overpriced even, but personally I like them enough to buy the products"...

The same way that, to break it down and make it simple for you so that you can understand, some people would pay £1000 for a designer handbag... Maybe in that persons opinion this product is worth the money and therfore not overpriced but objectively it IS OVERPRICED.

You're getting confused by the difference between expensive and overpriced. You can argue many 'luxury' items are horribly overpriced but for the most part they're just expensive.

I am not replying to anymore of your posts robbo because you do not seem capable of grasping my point and keep insulting me etc. It is quite simple really....

How many times have you said this now?!

I'm being perfectly amicable, more so now because I believe you have an actual issue that's making it difficult for you to communicate your point.

 

[NirK]

Again you are insulting me for no reason. *ignore list activated*

 

[Robbo]

 

[Doohickey]

I think the point is that the actual things you are getting for the money do not justify the price tag other than the apple logo and styling. As I have literally demonstrated 7 times now with different products. Anyway why am I even continuing with this I am going to go and do something fun instead!

Because you're not grasping that the concept of something being 'overpriced' is completely subjective. You can only call something categorically overpriced versus an 'equivalent' product, if the alternative is truly equivalent in every way. No one can deny that Apple make expensive products. Expensive does not equal overpriced.

 

[Doohickey]

The same way that, to break it down and make it simple for you, some people would pay £1000 for a designer handbag... Maybe in that persons opinion this product is worth the money and therfore not overpriced but objectively it IS OVERPRICED.

No It doesn't make it objectively overpriced. It makes it objectively expensive. You (and I) would feel that the handbag is subjectively overpriced. The buyer has obviously taken into account what the bag offers in terms of aesthetics/materials and decided that it *is* worth £1000 of their money.

 

[Skyboat]

The same way that, to break it down and make it simple for you, some people would pay £1000 for a designer handbag... Maybe in that persons opinion this product is worth the money and therfore not overpriced but objectively it IS OVERPRICED.

There is no such thing as objectively overpriced.

Overpriced = subjective
Expensive = objective

Quite simple really?

 

[NirK]

Now we are getting very pedantic... I have had enough of this goodbye.

 

[Robbo]

What's that, the 30th time he's "out" and has "had enough"?

Again, NirK, you don't understand the point you are trying to make. People pointing this out doesn't mean they are being pedantic... at all.

 

[Doohickey]

Now we are getting very pedantic... I have had enough of this goodbye.

What's pedantic?

Can't you see the irony- you're insisting that those who buy Apple are fanboys, defiant, stubborn, unable to reason with for buying products they could get cheaper elsewhere. And when presented with a fair explanation, you're equally as defiant, stubborn and unable to reason with.

 

[lamboman]

I think the problem here is that this has become far more complicated than it needs to be. Some are talking about an individual's justification of a product and its price (Robbo), while others are talking about a simple like-for-like comparison (NirK). I'd say ultimately it comes down to whether you believe you get what you pay for, or whether you feel one product should cost the same but offer more (value), from both technical and user experience perspectives (dependent on product really).

The biggest problem is that, NirK, you've made poor comparisons for several products that are not at all like-for-like, or arguments that were simply incorrect (eg. when you said "iMac, £1500; gaming PC, £1000", and bundling a load of parts together that wouldn't work, as examples of both). Had you actually made a fair comparison (eg. iMac vs a comparable ready-built AIO system; Mac Pro vs a comparable, ready-built workstation using workstation components), your argument would have fared better; maybe you'd have also realised that the tired old "Apple tax" claim isn't always true (I repeat, take a look at AIOs from the likes of Dell and HP, and compare them to the iMac - the iMac is of equal or better value from a component-for-component viewpoint).

 

[Number29]

If nothing else, this thread seems to be demonstrating that people haven't lost interest in Apple at all!

 

[edGfaCTor]

If nothing else, this thread seems to be demonstrating that people haven't lost interest in Apple at all!

I agree either people have interest because they dislike or like.

There will always be some that will refuse to see both sides of the fence this is why when you look through the posts here you see the same names appearing with trying to act all smart battling between the sides and when that doesn't work they attack other sides non related to the product at hand.

Stupid really.

 

[theheyes]

This thread isn't anything to do with the original topic any more, it doesn't demonstrate much. I don't know why it's still open.