New BMW's not like what they once were?
- Thread starter easyrider
- Start date
No idea yet, the M-Sport build config isn't up yet.
Comfort Access and Keyless Go allows me to get in the car and drive away without ever having to get the key out of my coat pocket. All of this means locks are out of my mind at all times
The weird thing is, I've never owned a BMW, but I've never seen anything that's ever suggested (other than this "German build quality statement" taht gets thrown everywhere) that BMW's are more reliable than any other car. I've seen numerous Vauxhalls, Fords, BMW's, Audi's etc at the side of the roads for years or on tow trucks, never once have I seen a Toyota Corolla or a Honda Civic. I'm prepared for the backlash here about this, but everyone just be honest here, I've seen loads of BMW's broken down... is it because there's more on the road etc? Who knows... however, I'd stand by the above... never ever in probably 1/2 million miles+ of driving have I ever seen a Corolla or a Civic broken down. You could argue they're not as technical blah blah blah...
I know the JD power survey covers more than reliability... but the facts speak for themselves... where does this "german built is bomb proof" idea come from? I know this is a yank one and it's just one graph blah blah just quickly found, however, BMW, Audi and Volkswagen are all in the bottom half... not surprised Mitsubishi are now floundering as well... the new ones are poorly made... amaingly looks like Merc has upped the anti from a few years ago? Anyway, sure loads will find all other graphcs showing complete opposites... so, I'll take this graph with a pinch of salt. 2 German make cars in the top half... hardly conclusive...
I know the JD power survey covers more than reliability... but the facts speak for themselves... where does this "german built is bomb proof" idea come from? I know this is a yank one and it's just one graph blah blah just quickly found, however, BMW, Audi and Volkswagen are all in the bottom half... not surprised Mitsubishi are now floundering as well... the new ones are poorly made... amaingly looks like Merc has upped the anti from a few years ago? Anyway, sure loads will find all other graphcs showing complete opposites... so, I'll take this graph with a pinch of salt. 2 German make cars in the top half... hardly conclusive...
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![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
It's because 'build quality' and 'reliability' are two different things.
Let us consider a Honda Civic. Inside a Honda Civic is a truely horible dashboard made enitrely of cheap and nasty plastic. Everything you touch feels cheap and flimsey. It has very little in the way of perceived quality in the materials used or the way its been put together. HOWEVER.. it will likely never ever, ever break down.
Let us now consider, I dunno, a BMW Whateveryouwant. Provided it's not an E90 3 Series or something, the interior feels well crafted. The door closes with a satisfying 'thunk' not a Japanese 'clang'. Everything you touch feels like it was built properly. The switchgear is solid. The plastics in the cabin feel like they might last for ever. It just feels like a quality poduct. HOWEVRRE - it'll probably go wrong at some point - certainly more often than the Honda.
The Honda is reliable, the BMW is well built, but the two terms do not mean the same thing.
Let us consider a Honda Civic. Inside a Honda Civic is a truely horible dashboard made enitrely of cheap and nasty plastic. Everything you touch feels cheap and flimsey. It has very little in the way of perceived quality in the materials used or the way its been put together. HOWEVER.. it will likely never ever, ever break down.
Let us now consider, I dunno, a BMW Whateveryouwant. Provided it's not an E90 3 Series or something, the interior feels well crafted. The door closes with a satisfying 'thunk' not a Japanese 'clang'. Everything you touch feels like it was built properly. The switchgear is solid. The plastics in the cabin feel like they might last for ever. It just feels like a quality poduct. HOWEVRRE - it'll probably go wrong at some point - certainly more often than the Honda.
The Honda is reliable, the BMW is well built, but the two terms do not mean the same thing.
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I've had loads of BMW's, over 10 and I've had Ford's, Vauxhalls, Rovers, Alfas, Volvo's and others I can't remember over the years. BMW is a better quality product and I don't give a stuff what JD Power says. A 3 series is better to be in, better to drive, better to use, has a nicer engine and is better than a Mondeo. It's not about badge for me, never has been but they are objectively better in most areas of importance to me and I rate the Mondeo highly but have had cause to be in colleagues of late they are not the same quality. Swap Mondeo for some other mid ranger from some other brand and its the same. Most of my BMW's were faultless too but then so were most of my cars.
By the same token, if the BMW is well built, why is the dependability poor! That to me says, that they may look like they're built fine BUT infact they're not. If a product is built to a high standard, it'll last, if not it won't.
So, based on your Honda analogy, they may feel cheap BUT infact they still never break whether that's engines or cockpit internals otherwise this would be flagged as a fault surely of poor dependability so just because it doesn't sound like a lead door when closing, does it do the same thing? Does it stop water getting in? Does it technically function as well as a BMW door. The answer is yes.
I suppose it depends on what this "dependability" definition is... is it break down, is it buttons breaking etc. We've had two Hondas over the years and not a single button, light or engine fault on either, that's on 2nd hand motors with high mileage... hwoever we could probably find someone on here with a 15 year old Fiat stating the same lol...
So, based on your Honda analogy, they may feel cheap BUT infact they still never break whether that's engines or cockpit internals otherwise this would be flagged as a fault surely of poor dependability so just because it doesn't sound like a lead door when closing, does it do the same thing? Does it stop water getting in? Does it technically function as well as a BMW door. The answer is yes.
I suppose it depends on what this "dependability" definition is... is it break down, is it buttons breaking etc. We've had two Hondas over the years and not a single button, light or engine fault on either, that's on 2nd hand motors with high mileage... hwoever we could probably find someone on here with a 15 year old Fiat stating the same lol...
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They aren't as JD Power is a statistics management process without accounting for many of the things that determine reliability such as the type of driver.
Lexus?
Having just px my 2003 e46 in for an e90 just wanted to say the E46 barely missed a beat, other than wear and tear items and one coil pack there wasnt anything wrong with it, lets just hope the e90 can be as reliable somehow i doubt it but as a car imo its far superior
Agreed... just using some stats, without every variable, you have to start somewhere... we all hear that Toyota and Lexus have great reliability... and the facts back this up... I can't find anything that backs BMW's "myths"...
However I knew this would stir things up... just saying that's all...
Because reliability isn't the same thing as using the best quality interior plastics!
Thing is, you can pay to fix a broken car but you can't pay to redesign a cheap interior.
Nope, but bought 2 for people who worked for me and been in them and driven them. I'm not a Lexus sort, but the 200 ones were not a patch on the 3 series. Didn't drive as well, weren't as nice inside, didn't have the same quality of plastics. I did loan a 300 one some years back, nice car but no 5 series, I had a 528i at the time so direct comparison. I did have loads of Pugs too and Xantia like Fox so I've driven REAL quality.
What myths? Nobody claims German cars have Jap level reliability. Those of us who like German cars know this only too well.
How do you know the facts back this up?
