AMD stock jumps 12% AMD, Amazon, Microsoft lead tech rally

LordSplodge · 12 Jul 2013 at 12:23

Glaucus said:
You obviously haven't seen this or next gen atoms.

So yes arm should be worried. Apple, can't even multitask. Where win8 tablets can its upto 4apps in metro on win8.1 depending on screen resolution, and what ever you want on the desktop.
In the fall when the new atom is released, ARM will have competition, so far they haven't had any, expect to see some android tablets switching to intel as well

Funnily enough I know all about Baytrail, but don't let your assumptions stop you.

Like I said, Arm is everywhere, Atom is not. Now for each advance that Intel make so do the makers of the Arm chip. Competition is good. But right now and for quite some time I really don't think Arm is threatened as intel missed the boat on low-power SoC stuff. They're playing catch up right now.

Multitasking; great for desktops, but I'm not sure how much it brings to tablets where screen space is limited. I've never once picked up my iPad (or Nexus 7 when I had it) and felt the need to have two or more apps open, taking up space from the app that has my primary focus. I'd rather have the type of strict multi-tasking on iOS (and iOS does multi task, so you're wrong on that point) than the type that has such a negative effect on battery power.

NathanE said:
Agreed. It won't be long until iOS and Android are yet another mobile OS consigned to history. .

So it won't be long until the two most dominant mobile platforms are consigned to history? By who? Microsoft? Too late and they have tiny market share.

LordSplodge · 12 Jul 2013 at 12:25

NathanE said:
By whom? Microsoft are one of the most innovative tech companies at the moment. Windows Azure is forecast to eclipse the entire Windows business unit in revenue by 2017. Xbox One looks amazing. Nobody else has Kinect.

Azure is brilliant, no idea why they felt the need to put the Windows name in there though.

Shame (excluding the XBox division) that the rest of MS isn't so focused. The Windows and Office divisions are thrashing around all over the shop.

As for Kinect, nobody else wants that!

Glaucus · 12 Jul 2013 at 12:32

Wy do. You think OEMs won't jump ship from arm, they have no loyalty, the. New atoms run android, there no. Reason for OEMs to stick with arm if they. Don't wont to. As for missing the boat. Yeah they are late. But then you have the rise and fall of companies, apps gone through several rises and declines, MS is in a decline ATM. Nokia, use to clean the fallin the mobile sector,mnot look at them. Nothing lasts for ever.

You've never wanted to watch a video and browse ocuk or twitter or something. Multitasking is one of the biggest downfalls for iOS, and one off the biggest lures too MS for me.

Strife212 · 12 Jul 2013 at 12:48

they have no loyalty, the. New atoms run android, there no. Reason for OEMs to stick with arm if they. Don't wont to.

Hmm

NathanE · 12 Jul 2013 at 12:53

LordSplodge said:
So it won't be long until the two most dominant mobile platforms are consigned to history? By who? Microsoft? Too late and they have tiny market share.

By progress.

Shorter term:
People are increasingly frustrated by the lack of power in their mobile devices. Lack of any sort of true multi-tasking is one major sore point. But also battery life being as short as it is.

Longer term:
Touch screens are not going to be the predominant way you use a mobile device forever you know? Just like BB-style qwerty keyboards had a limited shelf life. We've got augmented reality (Google Glass will be first to market) coming soon, and other "fingerprint-less" speech recognition, touch and gesture technologies.

Like I said, in 5 years iOS and Android will be the new Symbian OS.

LordSplodge · 12 Jul 2013 at 12:53

Glaucus said:
Wy do. You think OEMs won't jump ship from arm, they have no loyalty, the. New atoms run android, there no. Reason for OEMs to stick with arm if they. Don't wont to. As for missing the boat. Yeah they are late. But then you have the rise and fall of companies, apps gone through several rises and declines, MS is in a decline ATM. Nokia, use to clean the fallin the mobile sector,mnot look at them. Nothing lasts for ever.

You've never wanted to watch a video and browse ocuk or twitter or something. Multitasking is one of the biggest downfalls for iOS, and one off the biggest lures too MS for me.

Android has run on Intel for a while now, so that's nothing new.

As for multi-tasking, the market says otherwise at the moment. I'm not saying it won't change but until multitasking is a feature that slows the astormical popularity of the iPad then Apple aren't going to add it and Google don't seem to be in a rush to add multi-app support to Android.

And no, on a tablet, I don't want to watch a video and browse OCUK.

LordSplodge · 12 Jul 2013 at 12:59

NathanE said:
By progress.

Shorter term:
People are increasingly frustrated by the lack of power in their mobile devices. Lack of any sort of true multi-tasking is one major sore point. But also battery life being as short as it is.

Longer term:
Touch screens are not going to be the predominant way you use a mobile device forever you know? Just like BB-style qwerty keyboards had a limited shelf life. We've got augmented reality (Google Glass will be first to market) coming soon, and other "fingerprint-less" speech recognition, touch and gesture technologies.

Like I said, in 5 years iOS and Android will be the new Symbian OS.

Short term: If multitasking was such an important issue then tablet sales (because multiple apps on the screen of a phone is just stupid) would be effected. I don't see any impact in the sales of iPads (or Kindle Fires, or Nexus tablets)

As for underpowered, in what way? I'm typing this on an iPad 4. It has enough CPU and GPU to run a HDPI screen and play 3D games (at such resolutions) that rival consoles. How is that underpowered?

Google Glass is ahead of its time and wearable computing may well be the next step. But I bet as much as Google are working on it, so are Microsoft and Apple. These companies aren't stupid. They know that what they make now won't keep the bread on the table in five years.

Five years is a long time in the emerging tablet market.

LizardKing · 12 Jul 2013 at 12:59

NathanE said:
Like I said, in 5 years iOS and Android will be the new Symbian OS.

iOS i'd probably agree with but Android is slightly different in being open source, Symbian got left to rot and iOS is being drip fed features in the same manner.
Android is not held back by the same constraints at least!

Glaucus · 12 Jul 2013 at 13:01

LordSplodge said:
Short term: If multitasking was such an important issue then tablet sales (because multiple apps on the screen of a phone is just stupid) would be effected. I don't see any impact in the sales of iPads (or Kindle Fires, or Nexus tablets)

.

That argument only holds true if there's competition for people to vote, there hasn't been and still isn't. Hopefully with the new windows tablets in time for Christmas and the rapidly growing App Store, there might be a viable alternative for people.

And there's a lot new with the intel chips, they beat arm for a start, intel has made them cheaper etc. unlike Os where you have brand loyalty due to Eco systems. Android oems do not have brand loyalty for the chips, they will put in what ever is the best for there product. Be it price for cheap end, or perfomance in top end.

This is intels first direct competion chip for low powers devices.

NathanE · 12 Jul 2013 at 13:13

LordSplodge said:
And no, on a tablet, I don't want to watch a video and browse OCUK.

It's holding those platforms back. People are buying Win8 or RT tablets for this reason. At the moment it's just power users, but how long before all users want to multi-task?

LordSplodge said:
Short term: If multitasking was such an important issue then tablet sales (because multiple apps on the screen of a phone is just stupid) would be effected. I don't see any impact in the sales of iPads (or Kindle Fires, or Nexus tablets)

That depends how you look at the figures. Tablet sales don't match PC sales. Whilst growth massively exceeds PC sales as we all know. But if Tablets want to eventually entirely replace PCs then multi-tasking as well as parity with other features is a must.

As for underpowered, in what way? I'm typing this on an iPad 4. It has enough CPU and GPU to run a HDPI screen and play 3D games (at such resolutions) that rival consoles. How is that underpowered?

Not that type of power. Power of the software. iOS and Android are ridiculously primitive operating systems. You've got iOS running native code; a ticking security time bomb. And you've got Android running Java. Both platforms are incredibly proprietary and esoteric, not built upon standards or conventions. Whilst one is open source, it's only "tentative open source". And in the middle of that you've got Xamarin bridging the gap for developers that actually want to write quality software for these esoteric platforms by using a MVVM pattern with a single programming language and runtime.

Google Glass is ahead of its time and wearable computing may well be the next step. But I bet as much as Google are working on it, so are Microsoft and Apple. These companies aren't stupid. They know that what they make now won't keep the bread on the table in five years.

You'd hope so. The point is that whilst iOS and Android seem unbeatable right now. As you rightfully said, 5 years is a long time in an emerging market, so try not to think what appears to be concrete today will necessarily still be concrete in 5 years time. Trends are changing rapidly. It would only take Microsoft or Blackberry to make a bet on a trend shift before anyone else does and they'd quickly be gobbling up marketshare before Apple or Android knew what hit them.

Five years is a long time in the emerging tablet market.

Very long. So why believe iOS and Android are the "finished product". They are just prototypes from where I'm sitting. Buggy, crappy, unfinished.

LizardKing said:
iOS i'd probably agree with but Android is slightly different in being open source, Symbian got left to rot and iOS is being drip fed features in the same manner.
Android is not held back by the same constraints at least!

While Android is slightly more innovative than iOS it still has issues, namely fragmentation. The same problem that Linux has itself. And still, if a big enough trend shift comes along these platforms will take a long time to respond. Just look at iOS, they're still trying to catchup with WP8's "Tiles" and Android's "Widgets" features. And this barely qualifies as what I'm referring to as a proper trend shift.

LordSplodge · 12 Jul 2013 at 13:16

LizardKing said:
iOS i'd probably agree with but Android is slightly different in being open source, Symbian got left to rot and iOS is being drip fed features in the same manner.
Android is not held back by the same constraints at least!

Explain how being Open Source (partially at least) would help Android be around in five years whereas iOS wouldn't?

I doubt either would be around, at least not in a from you would recognise today in five years...

Glaucus said:
That argument only holds true if there's competition for people to vote, there hasn't been and still isn't. Hopefully with the new windows tablets in time for Christmas and the rapidly growing App Store, there might be a viable alternative for people.

Yeah, there's no competition in the tablet market right now, is there? I mean you can't buy two sizes of iPad, two sizes of Nexus tablets, a myriad of Samsung ones, or Kindle Fire tablets. Hell even the Surface RT and other RT tablets have been out for a while now.

Net demand for multitasking (well multiple apps on one small screen) appears to be very, very low. If it was higher then the Surface would be selling much better. It isn't.

Glaucus · 12 Jul 2013 at 13:18

LordSplodge said:
Yeah, there's no competition in the tablet market right now, is there? I mean you can't buy two sizes of iPad, two sizes of Nexus tablets, a myriad of Samsung ones, or Kindle Fire tablets. Hell even the Surface RT and other RT tablets have been out for a while now.

Net demand for multitasking (well multiple apps on one small screen) appears to be very, very low. If it was higher then the Surface would be selling much better. It isn't.

Surface rt isn't competion, underspeced or over priced. Next rund of win8 tablets will be competion, qaulcom 800 and super high res displays. Atom with super high res displays and of course haswell with high res displays. These will finally be competition for both apple and android on a like for like basis.
And several types of I'd is not competion for multitasking as neither do multitasking, so how can people vote for multitasking.

So your just ignoring the small App Store, win8 marketshare, the price and specs of the first gen win8 tablets and its all down to people not wanting multitasking.

LordSplodge · 12 Jul 2013 at 13:30

NathanE said:
It's holding those platforms back. People are buying Win8 or RT tablets for this reason. At the moment it's just power users, but how long before all users want to multi-task?

I'm a power user, I don't find any need to have multiple apps running on a tiny screen. Using the term multi-tasking is confusing as iOS and Android both already do that (differently, but they still do so)

That depends how you look at the figures. Tablet sales don't match PC sales. Whilst growth massively exceeds PC sales as we all know. But if Tablets want to eventually entirely replace PCs then multi-tasking as well as parity with other features is a must.

Not yet. But soon, maybe even this year they will start to outsell 'traditional' PCs

Multitasking already exists on tablets. I don't think multiple apps on a tablet screen is a "must" for them to continue being a success.

Given these assumptions, the day when the tablet market (by units) will exceed that of traditional PCs will come sometime in the fall of 2013.

Not that type of power. Power of the software. iOS and Android are ridiculously primitive operating systems. You've got iOS running native code; a ticking security time bomb. And you've got Android running Java. Both platforms are incredibly proprietary and esoteric, not built upon standards or conventions.

Neither are primitive. That's like saying Linux and BSD (Well OS X, actually) are primitive.

How is a Sandboxed environment a security time bomb? How is Java proprietary?

Very long. So why believe iOS and Android are the "finished product". They are just prototypes from where I'm sitting. Buggy, crappy, unfinished.

Unfinished? Both are stable, mature platforms. One based on BSD, and I doubt you could get much less of a un-buggy, unfinished codebase! We are in the 7th (6th if you don't count beta) release of iOS and 5th major release of Android. Hardly prototypes.

NathanE · 12 Jul 2013 at 13:33

LordSplodge said:
Net demand for multitasking (well multiple apps on one small screen) appears to be very, very low. If it was higher then the Surface would be selling much better. It isn't.

Demand is high. Awareness that alternatives exist to fulfil that demand is very low.

LordSplodge · 12 Jul 2013 at 13:35

Glaucus said:
Surface rt isn't competion, underspeced or over priced. Next rund of win8 tablets will be competion, qaulcom 800 and super high res displays. Atom with super high res displays and of course haswell with high res displays. These will finally be competition for both apple and android on a like for like basis.
And several types of I'd is not competion for multitasking as neither do multitasking, so how can people vote for multitasking.
.

So products that don't yet exist are competition for products that do exist?

When you say high resolution do you mean high PPI (a la 'Retina') or do you mean high-res in the traditional sense? Because I don't think people want minuscule text on a 10" display, even if they can run multiple apps onscreen.

Both Android and IOS already support multitasking, this term appears to be confused with running multiple apps onscreen. I've not seen anybody who has a tablet ask for this (and I know a lot of people with iPads or Android tablets, power users and normal folk alike)

LordSplodge · 12 Jul 2013 at 13:41

NathanE said:
Demand is high. Awareness that alternatives exist to fulfil that demand is very low.

Citation required.

Demand for tablets is high, that much is obvious (see my previous post for a source) but where is this demand for multiple apps running on a tablets screen?

Glaucus · 12 Jul 2013 at 13:42

It's still high res, text is scaled.

Not its pitting next gen against next gen. No android device will have anything better than the 800 or atom chips as they are the top available.

LordSplodge · 12 Jul 2013 at 13:48

Glaucus said:
It's still high res, text is scaled.

Not its pitting next gen against next gen. No android device will have anything better than the 800 or atom chips as they are the top available.

Massive difference between HDPI (aka Retina) and high-resolution. Do you not understand the difference?

So you know what MS is planning on releasing as well as Google and Apple? Because at the moment you are comparing something that doesn't exist (the next generation MS Windows 8 tablet) versus the current ones from Google and Apple (and others)

Glaucus · 12 Jul 2013 at 13:52

Do you understand qaulcom 800. Is th best arm available so no one. Is going to release anything higher than that, as that's the best.
So no, it's you ignoring what is available to oems to put inside tablets.

NathanE · 12 Jul 2013 at 13:56

LordSplodge said:
Citation required.

Demand for tablets is high, that much is obvious (see my previous post for a source) but where is this demand for multiple apps running on a tablets screen?

Google for "ios multi tasking window". That should get you started.

The Apple fans can't wait for it to happen; constantly speculating whether iOS vNext will include proper multi-tasking support. So much so there are even kids writing hacks for jailbroken devices to enable something close to what they want. E.g.

You simply can't deny the demand for this doesn't exist. It is an incredibly basic "want". And something that the current mainstream crop of devices all seem to lack. Everybody I know, even laymen tablet users, will occasionally and fleetingly ask me if its possible to pin their Youtube or TV Catchup or Spotify to the edge of their tablet screen whilst they continue to web surf.

Really the onus is on YOU to provide citations that the demand for this doesn't exist. As that there is the more outlandish stance here.