Is gaming a professional sport?

Davey_Pitch · 17 Jul 2013 at 09:09

Omaeka said:
Lack of physical exertion there is a lot of skill + competition but that's all, and going by the logic of the thread so far (and mine to a degree) no physical exertion = not a sport.

You what?! A lack of physical exertion in golf?! You've never played it have you? I have, and I can tell you there is a hell of a lot of physical exertion.

Divinious · 17 Jul 2013 at 09:12

Omaeka said:
Lack of physical exertion there is a lot of skill + competition but that's all, and going by the logic of the thread so far (and mine to a degree) no physical exertion = not a sport.

So hitting a 400 yard drive takes no physical exertion? man remind me to never play golf with you! you must be awesome at it.

Omaeka · 17 Jul 2013 at 09:13

I have played it, quite a lot actually & used to play regular on a proper green, I'm not seeing where you're getting that from as Golfers aren't athletes by any stretch and some are even below average fitness. Or are you having me on?

Okay, swap 'lack of exertion' with the fact they aren't athletes then.

Hyburnate · 17 Jul 2013 at 09:15

"Noun
An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others."

Apart from the physical exertion part, google would agree.

I believe it is yes, sport is about learning about the sport in question and gaming requires this.

Divinious · 17 Jul 2013 at 09:21

Omaeka said:
I have played it, quite a lot actually & used to play regular on a proper green, I'm not seeing where you're getting that from as Golfers aren't athletes by any stretch and some are even below average fitness. Or are you having me on?

Okay, swap 'lack of exertion' with the fact they aren't athletes then.

I think you mean 'proper course' the green is just for putting

& I wouldn't call a competitive shooter or an archer athletes either but they are sportsmen! same as golfers!

Davey_Pitch · 17 Jul 2013 at 09:24

Omaeka said:
I have played it, quite a lot actually & used to play regular on a proper green, I'm not seeing where you're getting that from as Golfers aren't athletes by any stretch and some are even below average fitness. Or are you having me on?

Okay, swap 'lack of exertion' with the fact they aren't athletes then.

If you've played proper golf (ie, a proper 18 hole course which requires you to go more than 20 yards from tee to green), then your standpoint is simply baffling.

Omaeka · 17 Jul 2013 at 09:28

Aye, I never claim to of known what I was doing but there wasn't any proper physical exertion even when bored + smashing a drive as far as possible for a laugh, felt like you'd moved like but that was it, takes about the same athleticism as mowing a lawn.

Archery takes as much physical exertion as golf though, doesn't make either athletes by any stretch but drawing & holding a decent bow takes some strength + cardio to hold. Not much like but it's there.

Davey_Pitch said:
If you've played proper golf (ie, a proper 18 hole course which requires you to go more than 20 yards from tee to green), then your standpoint is simply baffling.

Why? You don't have to be in shape at all to play golf, just look at the kind of people who play it! Honestly, of all the sports it takes the least amount of grunt, you're not gonna walk away from playing golf feeling out of breath or tired, not unless you're a 65 year old retiree off for a post-golfing sherry.

Divinious · 17 Jul 2013 at 09:31

Sportsman & athlete are both valid unlike your point

Davey_Pitch · 17 Jul 2013 at 09:32

Omaeka said:
Aye, I never claim to of known what I was doing but there wasn't any proper physical exertion even when bored + smashing a drive as far as possible for a laugh, felt like you'd moved like but that was it, takes about the same athleticism as mowing a lawn.

Archery takes as much physical exertion as golf though, doesn't make either athletes by any stretch but drawing & holding a decent bow takes some strength + cardio to hold. Not much like but it's there.

So what you're basically saying is that golf isn't a sport because you didn't put that much effort into it. That's like saying football isn't much of a sport if when you play with your mates you go in goal and don't bother diving for anything.

Golf is a sport. It requires a hell of a lot of practise, physical practise, to build the muscle memory required to hit those perfect drives. It requires a ton of skill in knowing how to shape your shots, drawing or fading them as needed. It requires more stamina that you obviously give it credit for, so that when you're playing on the 72nd hole and you need a perfectly straight 300 yard drive to set up that final approach for the championship, your body doesn't let you down.

Why? You don't have to be in shape at all to play golf, just look at the kind of people who play it! Honestly, of all the sports it takes the least amount of grunt, you're not gonna walk away from playing golf feeling out of breath or tired, not unless you're a 65 year old retiree off for a post-golfing sherry.

Lol, what a ridiculous point! You don't have to be in shape to play most sports. I'm a fat git and I can play football whenever I want. To be at the very top of the game, pretty much all of them are in seriously good shape. They may not have huge muscles or superb definition, but they are very fit people. Just look at someone like Tiger Woods and tell me he's not an athlete.

Divinious · 17 Jul 2013 at 09:39

So what about F1 drivers? not athletes? not sportsmen? is F1 a sport?

Omaeka · 17 Jul 2013 at 09:42

Well no I'm not saying that as what I did playing golf comparative to the 'sport' is nowhere near that metaphor of sitting in goal not doing anything rofl. I never said it didn't take skill, it takes more skill than football for example and I regard it as being very high for skill perhaps the highest outside of full contact fighting...

Do they really play for 72 holes? At that level of play yeah I can see it being a little tiring but jesus I didn't know they made courses that big.

Anyway yeah fair point, I retract my statement but it's still nowhere near as tiring as some other sports are. It still ranks pretty low, hence why 70 year olds love it.

Yes, F1 is a sport as you have to be in peak physical shape to withstand the Gs and forces against your body, don't compare golf to F1 as that's flat out insulting. Nice try trying to catch me out though.

Darg · 17 Jul 2013 at 09:49

ince said:
Most professional gamers are losers

Removed - No personal attacks

Of course it is a sport, maybe without the physical exertion ( though you try doing 300 APM on a keyboard/mouse and not call that exertion ) but people train for years to get to the highest level of the game. There are teams and coaches, retired players that help their team mates learn. There is a large amount of sponsorship involved and a relatively large online audience.

If it takes skill and is that competitive then it cannot be classed as anything but a sport. People dedicate large portions of their lives to the game and get paid to do so with large prizes to be had if they win tournaments.

The only thing that it doesn't have is physical exertion but if you want to use that point to exempt it from being classed as a sport then a vast amount of current "sports" must also be exempt.

Davey_Pitch · 17 Jul 2013 at 09:53

Omaeka said:
Well no I'm not saying that as what I did playing golf comparative to the 'sport' is nowhere near that metaphor of sitting in goal not doing anything rofl. I never said it didn't take skill, it takes more skill than football for example and I regard it as being very high for skill perhaps the highest outside of full contact fighting...

Do they really play for 72 holes? At that level of play yeah I can see it being a little tiring but jesus I didn't know they made courses that big.

Anyway yeah fair point, I retract my statement but it's still nowhere near as tiring as some other sports are. It still ranks pretty low, hence why 70 year olds love it.

Yes they do play for 72 hours, not in one day though. 18 holes a day for 4 days straight (assuming they make the cut). It might not sound like much, but that's 4-5 hours of golf a day for 4 days running. I've obviously never played in that situation, but I imagine by the end of day 4 you are both physically and mentally drained.

And yes, I would agree that it's nowhere near as tiring as a lot of other sports, but I would argue that it's more demanding than a lot of other sports in many respects. You're competing against the course and mother nature at the same time. That perfect shot you hit can be knocked 20 yards off line due to a change in wind, putting you deep in the rough or in a bunker. The lie of the shot could mean a dramatic change in your normal stance, giving you extra problems to deal with. Hell, I've seen balls hit a sprinkler head and go 30 yards in the wrong direction as a result. These are problems that are just not factors (or as big a factor) in most other sports.

Omaeka · 17 Jul 2013 at 10:04

Davey_Pitch said:
Yes they do play for 72 hours, not in one day though. 18 holes a day for 4 days straight (assuming they make the cut). It might not sound like much, but that's 4-5 hours of golf a day for 4 days running. I've obviously never played in that situation, but I imagine by the end of day 4 you are both physically and mentally drained.

And yes, I would agree that it's nowhere near as tiring as a lot of other sports, but I would argue that it's more demanding than a lot of other sports in many respects. You're competing against the course and mother nature at the same time. That perfect shot you hit can be knocked 20 yards off line due to a change in wind, putting you deep in the rough or in a bunker. The lie of the shot could mean a dramatic change in your normal stance, giving you extra problems to deal with. Hell, I've seen balls hit a sprinkler head and go 30 yards in the wrong direction as a result. These are problems that are just not factors (or as big a factor) in most other sports.

I can see golf being pretty extreme as far as mental exertion goes, especially the willpower it'd take to not give up, in clutch game situations on the final hours of the final days where the slightest degree of inaccuracy or slightest lapse in wind judgement can be the difference between the green and the river. I respect golf in every way for those regards, the skill and mental conditioning it requires is off the charts, but somebody of average or even slightly below average shape could handle the physical toll it would take on your body, doesn't mean they'd do any good by the 3 or 4th day but that's down to mental willpower and will to win more than athleticism hence why a large amount of professionals are older gentlemen and/or overweight. Of course there are guys like Tiger (obvious one to bring up I know

) who are way way way above average shape and could fare well in most other sports but the guys like him are the ones who take the sport extremely serious and build the muscle and fitness to take them that extra mile and give them advantages when the physical tolls do being to appear, which lets them become the best but it isn't by any means a requirement of the sport.

Divinious · 17 Jul 2013 at 10:10

So a sport in your eyes is something that you have to be physically fit to participate in?

Omaeka · 17 Jul 2013 at 10:15

Yes. Or something in which building athleticism can give you an edge, even if it is only slight. So by that logic I would actually consider golfing to be a sport.

Back on top though: Gaming on the other hand regardless of the physical ability you build you gain zero advantages and it isn't a sport.

That's coming from somebody who is into E-'sports', I hadn't slept for 48 hours until last night just to get my sleeping pattern back in check after being up until 7AM watching EVO on sunday night, so it's not like I'm some troll who dislikes people who takes gaming seriously, I just could never consider it a sport, it's borderline insulting to the 'other' actual sports.

mattdunnapoo · 17 Jul 2013 at 10:15

If People will pay and go watch it , why not a sport?

we are raising children to play games anyways and no ball signs every where i think its pretty set in stone to turn games to sport

Skyboat · 17 Jul 2013 at 10:17

Omaeka said:
volleyball, tennis, javelin, shot put, long jump, dodgeball shouldn't be called sports.

How are any of them not physically demanding??

Spektor · 17 Jul 2013 at 10:23

I don't know why anyone cares what label it's given... gaming is what it is. There are people earning a living around gaming not only for competing at the top end, but for commentating on such competitions, reporting on news surrounding both competitions and gaming in general and for being entertainers within gaming.

Yet it does meet the definition of a sport, so I don't see what the problem is with calling it as such. But I do see frequently this argument always hinge around the physical exertion aspect.. I'd like to see the people who dismiss gaming over that so readily play 20-30minute (if not longer) games of Starcraft 2 at 3-400APM for hours on end day in and day out. Even leaving out the exhaustion that comes as a result of the mental side of playing, wiggling your fingers around really fast for 12 hours a day isn't easy and you pay for it a few years later with a nice dose of RSI.

Omaeka · 17 Jul 2013 at 10:27

Skyboat said:
How are any of them not physically demanding??

I wouldn't say they required you to go above and beyond what an average person is capable of in order to compete professionally. Except shot put long-jump and javelin but they aren't directly competitive, more like try to beat a leaderboard. Although tbf would consider them sports now rethinking it as they are competitive and have the potential to give advantages to those who are in better shape whether it's needed in the first place or not. Can't just throw a massive net over anything that's competitive when it comes to sports, as thats when things like gaming fall through the cracks, next we'll have competitive cooking as a sport lmao.

So yeah, defining factor as to whether something is a sport or not IMO is whether physical gains can give you advantages whether it's required intially or not.