Lower back pain

shifty_uk

shifty_uk

shifty_uk

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I don't want this to descend into a medical thread, just some general advice on technique/training would be good! :)

Since I've totally changed my routines around lately to focus on olympic/strength as opposed to bodybuilding(last 4.5 years) I've found I'm getting a bit of trouble in my lower back. It flares up almost every session now.

My back is aching between sets, mostly when I'm loading weight onto the bar - regardless of exercise I find it increasingly difficult as the sets progress to bend over and load more weight on - it aches pretty badly!

When I deadlift, there isn't any pain during reps, I'm doing a lot of snatch grip now to focus on weaknesses and my weight is progressing well. Snatch grip: 140kg, mixed grip 170kg.

Also when I'm clean and jerking, if I put the weight down gradually, my back starts to hurt, sometimes I have to just drop it instead.

Squatting is fine, front or back because I can load the weight onto the bar in the rack.

I was C&J and pressing for 40 minutes earlier and on my way home from the gym felt shooting in my lower back :confused:

Any ideas? I'm anal about form, too.

Cheers.

Edit: Forgot to mention, the pain goes away within 10 minutes of the leaving the gym and doesn't return until I'm back in or doing something strenuous.
 
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Remember putting on and removing the weights is still part of the work out.

Get yourself over in the form thread.

Get videos of your lifts, you may think they're perfect but chances are something isn't right.

Mrthingyx is the man to talk to about Only stuff :p

First off, videos.
 
Have you been coached in the Oly lifts? Personally I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole - despite wanting to the do them - unless I had some hands on coaching from someone who knew what they were doing vs online advice (sorry mrthingyx!) and the proper equipment; bumper plates, platform where I could dump the weight. Saying you have to put the weight down slowly makes it sound like you can't dump them freely. The nature of them (dynamic, explosive movements for singles/doubles/triples) means if something isn't right it's probably easier to snap yourself than with something like a squat or deadlift.
 
Sounds like you need to do some mobility and learn proper form/movement pattern.
 
Any tightness in your hip flexors? I have that issue at the moment and it radiates the other way in that the pain there causes lower back pain as well. I've seen a physio about it and have a few stretches but there are a few decent vids on youtube that go into it. Worth looking at it anyway
 
Stretch hamstrings, glutes, hips, quads, lats and give them all a good roll too.

See if bracing your core properly when you bend over makes a difference.

Would advise against a chiropractor with the preference being a sports masseuse. The problem is obviously muscular and a decent sports masseuse should be able to help. That said there is obviously an imbalance/weakness somewhere.
 
Depending on how your second pull looks, and what you're doing with your lumbar when you lower the weight (just don't - it isn't clever, unless you're lifting with cast plates), you're just overworking your back.

Second pull is most glute with the remnant being quad, and having lifted like a deep for my first six months, I know how this can hurt. It can also get ugly depending on how you're catching goes, too.

Snatch grip deadlifts really brutalise your back, too, so just make sure you're low and tight enough.

And Delvis is right about plating up, too.
 
Cheers for the feedback guys!

I keep saying it but I'll get some videos of my form eventually. It's just a pain whilst training to snap out the camera or rely on someone else to film.

I'd say, if anything, I overemphasise the movement by sticking my arse out and hyper-extending.

mrthingyx: When it comes to the second pull, I'm not using anything other than my arms/traps and some momentum from the transition which is exactly where I'm going wrong. I just don't understand the mechanics of the movement enough to understand where my glutes are meant to be pulling/coming into it and why.

Instead of using my arms/traps to pull myself under the bar, I'm using them to flip the bar which is leaving me in a state of mental annoyance because I can't understand the movement in my head enough to even perform it without any weigh on the bar.

I'll drop the bar in future though, they're rubber coated so not that bad!
 
It could be a number of things, based on your description. Without seeing it, it's hard to tell, however.

One of the problems based on your post may be related to your "over-emphasising" whereby your focing your lumbar into too much extension and - when stressing it - causing the same (but reverse) problem of poor lumbar control.

This may be compounded in the transition from first to second pull, where your core may go a bit wobbly, meaning you also pull from your back. If you're using your arms and traps only, then I'm pretty sure this is at least one area that is going wrong.

If you want, I'll update that "how to clean" thread with some new and improved videos a bit later...

As Som pointed out, coaching over the internet is a dumb idea, but we can at least try to stop you hurting. :)
 
I'm deadlifting tonight, I'll make a point of getting some reps filmed.

I was thinking that. I find even when I bend down these days, because I'm conscious of my back, I tend to hyper extend - I could totally be losing the fixed, rigid core because of it. Then again, you guys are right, without seeing it, it's hard to tell!

I didn't realise you had a thread, reading now! The part about the second pull is exactly where I'm going wrong. I'm undoubtedly using my traps/lower back instead of my hips to force the weight up. A weight I could totally manage...for example 80kilos ends up causing difficulty because I can't drive it up. Sometimes I nail it and the weight flies up without issue but 90% of the time it doesn't. I find it hard getting that mind-muscle connection between my lower body when it comes to these power movements.

I'm getting an olympic trainer/university sports lecturer to look over my form which will be excellent but in the meantime I appreciate everybodys advice :)
 
shifty_uk said:
I'm getting an olympic trainer/university sports lecturer to look over my form which will be excellent but in the meantime I appreciate everybodys advice :)
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This will be more useful (assuming they're actually an Olympic lifting coach) than anything we on this forum can provide, so get to it! :)
 
mrthingyx said:
This will be more useful (assuming they're actually an Olympic lifting coach) than anything we on this forum can provide, so get to it! :)
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Yep, a cousin too which is ideal!
icecold said:
Problem most likely stems from position on the first pull, compounded by not knowing what the second pull is ;)
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Definitely! :p

This video does a good job of explaining where I'm going wrong. I understand the hip thrust better now.
 
More heels than that guy. :)

What you (and he) are describing is the typical un-taught clean which is something like a cross between an SLDL and an upright row.
 
No, I would, but he rocks forward onto his toes too early in the pull. It's something I've been mindful to try and correct in my lifts... otherwise it was great. :)

The one problem I've noted I have with the 'just jump' learning technique is that it tends to neglect the hip drive element of the lift: it's still there, but I have to consciously force my hips through all the more.

The best lifters will be in a standing-up position at the end of their hip extension with their feet flat on the ground, which helps them get under the bar faster and - therefore - lift more. The key thing here is "best lifters" as it's bloody hard work not rocking forward. :o Guys like Klokov and his mate are hella strong, but their technique is not as good as Akkaev, hence Akkaev always comes out on top in competition. Also, look at how the top Chinese lifters move, and you'll see it there, too.

It also forces the bar up as opposed to forward, adding to the lift efficiency.
 
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