UEFA Champions/Europa League Qualifying 27/28/29 August *** Spoilers ***

Well tbf for City, losing Kompany is more or less them losing their spine as seen in their defeat to Cardiff;):p

you guy's are looking for a DM aren't you?

put it this way Wanyama was only sold for £12 million and I put him up there with Yaya Toure, that's how good he was when he turned it on.

only thing lacking was his stamina and he tended to drop off in the second half.

but arsenal would have improved his fitness and he would have been the rock of your midfield for the next 10 years.

he's young too. watch him when you play southampton, he's so strong and confident on the ball, he taught barcelona a lesson.
 
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Pots for tomorrows draw

Pot one: Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Manchester United, Arsenal, FC Porto, Benfica.

Pot two: Atletico Madrid, Shakhtar Donetsk, AC Milan, Schalke 04, Marseille, CSKA Moscow, Paris Saint-Germain, Juventus.

Pot three: Zenit St Petersburg, Manchester City, Ajax Amsterdam, Borussia Dortmund, FC Basel, Olympiakos, Galatasaray, Bayer Leverkusen.

Pot four: FC Copenhagen, Napoli, Anderlecht, Celtic, Steaua Bucharest, Plzen, Real Sociedad, Austria Vienna.

MW

would happily take:

pot one - either portuguese team
pot two - Shaktar, Marseille or Moscow
pot three - Basel, Olympiakos and Galatasary

then we have a chance of making the last 16 unless we sign another Hooper and Wanyama.
 
Just seen the second Vela goal, ran it from half way line into their box and a little dink over their keeper. Lyon's defence certainly isn't epic but he used his pace and strength well and just went the other side of the final CB, drew the keeper out and put it past him so easily.

For Arsenal the easiest draw I think we could get is Marseille, Olympiakos, Vienna probably.

We could draw Shakhtar, Zenit/Galatasaray and Sociedad which would give us some old Arsenal players coming back to the Emirates which I frankly always like to see. Vela really didn't get used enough to be really well loved by the Arsenal fans, but always like seeing Eboue/Eduardo back at Arsenal and Arshavin/Vela are two players I like hugely.
 
DM Vela played loads for Arsenal and only ever did well in the Carling Cup. When ever he was given a first team chance in the prem he was severely disappointing, I really wanted him to do well because I saw glimpses of brilliance from him but he just wasn't good enough.
 
DM Vela played loads for Arsenal and only ever did well in the Carling Cup. When ever he was given a first team chance in the prem he was severely disappointing, I really wanted him to do well because I saw glimpses of brilliance from him but he just wasn't good enough.

First that is entirely rubbish, second it wasn't glimpses he was always good, third he was from what I recall never a single time played upfront for Arsenal in his actual position but played wide which was a newer position to him.

A break down just for you.

In 08/09 he started 2 league games(after in the previous season at Osasuna starting 21 + 12 sub appearances), a sub in 12 more, with one goal.

In the CC he had 3 starts, 4 goals, 2 assists. FA cup 3 starts, 1 goal, 1 assist. UCL 2 starts. Lets break that down a touch further.

He started the season(after a fantastic preseason) an unused sub, then he got 30 mins in a game already over (3-0 up before he came on). Three weeks later he got 10 mins in the CL, several days later an unused sub. he then started in the CC and got 3 goals and an assist in one epic game. That was followed by 15 minutes against Hull, 20 against Porto, 5 against Sunderland, not used at everton, 5 mins against Fenebache, unused against Spurs, 20 mins against Stoke, 30 entire minutes against fenebache again...... etc, etc.
He never got a run of games, he rarely got more than 15 mins as a sub and he got unused for weeks at a time between his chances.


http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/76098/carlos-vela?cc=5739#ui-tabs-1

I honestly can't be bothered to look through the numbers and add them up, the numbers used to be on the fantasy prem league site till Vela left. From recollection it was something like 8-10 games TOTAL MINUTES across 3 seasons in the league.

Anyway 09/10 ONE league start, 10 sub appearances, again usually 15 mins or less. FAC 2 starts, 2 assists, CC 1 start, 1 goal. With one league start he got one league goal.

In 10/11 0 league starts for Arsenal, 4 sub appearances, 1 goal(in three shots). 3 CC games, 1 assist. 0 starts in the CL, 4 sub appearances, 2 goals, FAC 1 sub appearance. 3 league starts for West brom 2 goals, 1 assist.


Sorry but where are the "loads" of chances. He scored and assisted well in all competitions in which he was used. He had a total of 3 league starts in 3 years....... that is considered "loads of chances" these days is it? Even in sub appearances you're talking about 26 sub appearances in 3 years, thats nothing. He wasn't remotely given a chance, he looked incredibly good in the cup games, he rarely if ever looked outright poor. He certainly looked better than many first team players and his form went through the roof the second he got more than a few starts in a row.

Vela's quality in preseason was as apparent as Wilshire's, RVP's, Arshavin's, Fabregas's was. There was never a single sign he wasn't good enough and 3 league starts in 3 years is utterly embarrassing.

He lost three years of development not playing basically. Since he left season 1 was 28 starts, 12 goals, 7 assists, season 2 was 32 starts, 14 goals, 9 assists, season 3 is already 2 league starts 2 goals 1 assist, 2 CL games against Lyon(not a tiny team) with 2 goals and 1 assist. he's on course like so many players to after a couple of years of consistent games pushing their game on and he's already looking like having a significantly stronger season.

he is EVERYTHING Walcott isn't. Cooler finishing, massively stronger, doesn't wuss out of tackles, tracks players all the way back to the box and actually knows how to tackle. Has the football brain Walcott badly lacks, can cross excellently, can shoot from anywhere and scores quite a few headed goals. His movement and technique are brilliant, he took the ball from the half way line holding off players, keeping the ball close, going past players then scoring a goal. Walcott loses the ball by his third touch, runs away if someone tries to muscle him off the ball and would then fluff the shot under pressure(not that he'd get there).
 
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He had plenty of chances and didn't take them. If he was good enough he would have been played more. I remember being excited every time he came on as a sub in the prem and he was always massively disappointing. He had 29 appearances in the league over 3 years and scored 1 goal! Sorry but if you're trying to break into the first team you need to take your chances when they come and he didn't.

Thanks for keeping us updated about every goal he scores though, I'm sure one day Wenger will read this thread and realise he should have kept Vela to bang in those goals against lower division / under strength prem league teams.

EDIT

Thank god you edited in that comment about Walcott I was beginning to think something was wrong!
 
.

Thanks for keeping us updated about every goal he scores though, I'm sure one day Wenger will read this thread and realise he should have kept Vela to bang in those goals against lower division / under strength prem league teams.

:D:D DM has such a hard on for Vela, its a bit like Wenger and Diaby:p. Tbh Vela never really impressed me, perhaps hes doing well in La Liga because its an easier league compared to the PL. But stillgood on the lad for doing well there, im glad hes found some success there just a shame he couldnt do it whilst at Arsenal.


you guy's are looking for a DM aren't you?

put it this way Wanyama was only sold for £12 million and I put him up there with Yaya Toure, that's how good he was when he turned it on.

only thing lacking was his stamina and he tended to drop off in the second half.

but arsenal would have improved his fitness and he would have been the rock of your midfield for the next 10 years.

he's young too. watch him when you play southampton, he's so strong and confident on the ball, he taught barcelona a lesson.

Yep we could have signed Gustavo from Bayern, i like Wanyama, whe i saw him play against Barca last year he ran rings around them. God knows why we didnt have a proper look at him but will be interesting to see how he does in the PL.
 
Tom Carroll's one and only start for Spurs this season tonight? Can't see him getting much of a look-in after the transfer window shuts.
 
i like the look of carroll and he's ideal for these situations. hopefully we play a lot of fringe players tonight in prep for sunday. a 5 goal lead should be enough for the fringe players to seal the win.
 
He had plenty of chances and didn't take them. If he was good enough he would have been played more. I remember being excited every time he came on as a sub in the prem and he was always massively disappointing. He had 29 appearances in the league over 3 years and scored 1 goal! Sorry but if you're trying to break into the first team you need to take your chances when they come and he didn't.

Thanks for keeping us updated about every goal he scores though, I'm sure one day Wenger will read this thread and realise he should have kept Vela to bang in those goals against lower division / under strength prem league teams.

EDIT

Thank god you edited in that comment about Walcott I was beginning to think something was wrong!


Once again, please explain how 3 starts in 3 years constitutes loads or plenty of chances. It is beyond absurd to suggest a player given no more than 2 starts in the league in any single season was given a real chance.

As for goals and assists against lower league opposition, he has scored and assisted against pretty much every team in the top half of La Liga including Barcelona, infact the only team he hasn't done either against is Real, and he was still phenomenally good in the game against Real which they lost, rather unfairly 4-3.

Anyway, you keep saying he wasn't good enough because 3 league starts out of 114 possible games or the 2.6% of league games he started in his time at Arsenal constitutes loads of chances... because you don't look ridiculously for sticking with that at all, it's not patently absurd to say two league starts in an entire season was loads of chances... no.

PS his two league starts, 2nd May, scored, Fulham 28th Feb. Because the best way to get a new player to play at his best is to wait 6 months to let him have his first league start, got 62 minutes, then wait a further two months for his first 90 minute league performance.... in which he scored.

How do you think RVP would have done had he signed for Utd, not been used till Feb, given 2/3rds of a game, and 2 months later been given one more start?
 
Ok just ignore his other appearances. He had 3 starts and came on as sub 26 times, RvP would have scored more than once as would any top striker.
 
Ok just ignore his other appearances. He had 3 starts and came on as sub 26 times, RvP would have scored more than once as would any top striker.

In total over 3 seasons he had around 10 complete games with 8 of those spread out over 23 separate sub appearances. No, most strikers wouldn't do better. RVP makes 10 starts in a row, then comes on for 10 minutes at the end of the next game and scores... thats not surprising. Making 0 starts in a row, and after 10 games coming on for 10 minutes and not scoring, again, wouldn't be remotely surprising.

If Vela was flat out given 10 games with a full 90 minutes over 3 years... that wouldn't remotely be close to being called loads of chances, 10 games in 3 years and 114 games possible is not loads of chances. When you split the majority of that time in pitch into 20+ games... its laughable to consider that as loads of chances. 99% of players will not be effective when used weeks apart for 15 minutes at a time, Vela not being different to the 99% of other players who would suck in the same situation is no where near the same as calling him bad.

Chamakh played great for 3-4 months, then played with zero consistency was rubbish for the next 3 years. Arshavin was great, till he was dropped, then sporadic appearances and he was nothing like the same player. Walcott has improved since being played more consistently, Giroud has improved being played more consistently, as has Ramsey, Kos, etc, etc, etc.

Don't forget in 08/09 Vela was also 19 years old and new to the country.

EDIT:- I decided to do it, he played 427 minutes in his first year spread across 14 games. So we've got 4.74 games in his first season in total minutes in the league, spread often weeks apart, with his first start being 6 months after he joined(when any previous seasons form was long gone). These numbers went seriously downhill for the next season and the season after. Something along the lines of less in the next two seasons than the first season put together. Sub 10 games of total minutes spread over 26 sub appearances, with no chance of form, spread over 3 years with only 3 starts...

It took all of 2-3 games for West Brom to get 10 times the form out of him as soon as he was used consistently at Sociedad his form went through the roof.
 
Wait, what, the Swansea game is live but only on a Welsh channel I've never heard of before?

http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic/c_live.shtml

They appear to be speaking gibberish in the commentary. Weird, odd that it isn't carried on a more mainstream channel as surely Swansea are only hurting the numbers who can potentially watch them play by doing it this way? Also odd as i thought the first leg was on ITV after the Spurs game. I can't even find the channel on freeview or freesat though it's supposed to be there.
 
Group A: Manchester United, Shakhtar Donetsk, Bayer Leverkusen
Group B: Real Madrid, Juventus, Galatasaray, FC Copenhagen
Group C: Benfica, Paris Saint-Germain, Olympiakos, Anderlecht
Group D: Bayern Munich, CSKA Moscow, Manchester City, Viktoria Plzen
Group E: Chelsea, Schalke, FC Basel, Steaua Bucharest
Group F: Arsenal, Marseille, Borussia Dortmund, Napoli
Group G: Porto, Atletico Madrid, Zenit St Petersburg, Austria Vienna
Group H: Barcelona, AC Milan, Ajax, Celtic

I'll take that for Arsenal however I would rather a few of the others! :p
 
TEAM to face Dinamo Tbilisi:

Friedel; Walker, Kaboul, Vertonghen, Naughton; Holtby, Carroll, Sandro, Sigurdsson, Townsend; Defoe.

Subs: Lloris, Paulinho, Soldado, Capoue, Dembele, Fryers, Kane
 
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