Who here is a teacher?

[matthab]

I respect teachers and the work they do after all I don't think I could hack it. A sibling of mine is training to be a teacher and it doesn't look easy/fun but it does look rewarding.

However I wish teachers would stop moaning that its all unfair in the current cuts and there so hard done by. A couple of my friends went into teaching and moan over pension/pay even thoe they get much more benefits than the private sector and great job security. If I remember rightly the government hasn't dropped spending but Increased it.

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

I hate when people talk about their degrees etc, but I went to a selective school and got an ABB at A Level. I am a primary school teacher because, shock horror... I wanted to be one!

Hey don't come in here posting facts !

 

[Pestilence]

What has it got to do with being bloody self minded? Teachers going on strike invariably mean people with children have to take emergency holidays or pay for last minute childcare - if they can get it.

The point is that some people then use that (obvious) inconvenience to solidify their mindset that teachers are beneath contempt, paid too much, and whatever other self- and un-informed nonsense without a second consideration as to the reasons behind the strikes, and what they would do if faced with with the same professional situations. They swap empathy for self-interest, and all because they don't have a free dumping ground for their offspring for the day.

I'm certainly not saying that all parents are like that, and there'll obviously be the ones who do back industrial action whenever necessary and will still be inconvenienced. They, however, don't use their own problems to treat others contemptuously.

 

[platypus]

I'm certainly not saying that all parents are like that, and there'll obviously be the ones who do back industrial action whenever necessary and will still be inconvenienced. They, however, don't use their own problems to treat others contemptuously.

So all parents who don't back industrial action must be bloody minded and treat teachers contemptously?

I'm intrigued as to why you are couching possible financial (and time) loss as a mere inconvenience.

 

[Pestilence]

So all parents who don't back industrial action must be bloody minded and treat teachers contemptously?

That's an inference made by you, not me. Notice the use of "some" and "there'll be the ones". Things don't need to be split up into such simple binary terms. Please don't insinuate I'm doing so, when I haven't explicity said I am.

I'm intrigued as to why you are couching possible financial (and time) loss as a mere inconvenience.

I use "inconvenience" because it's hardly life-destroying, is it?

To use your own device against you: Are you saying that time with your own children is time lost, and much more aggrieving than merely "an inconvenience"? Sheesh.

 

[platypus]

It wouldn't be life destroying for me, and presumably a lot of other people. But it could be a damned sight more than "inconvenient" for a lot of people who can't necessarily afford childcare at short notice, and can't get the time off work.

It's not really appropriate to field it as "time with one's children". It's a situation forced upon parents rather than a day off now isn't it?

They swap empathy for self-interest, and all because they don't have a free dumping ground for their offspring for the day.

This line in particular, your emotive histrionics aside, though just shows how narrowminded you are. Perhaps I'm inferring that from what you've said because you're unable to explain yourself clearly or objectively.

 

[Diagro]

Strike action is given notice well in advance.
Only a lazy parent can't get a day off under those circumstances, my partner is strikeing not because she wants to but because she is forced to. The school will shut down for the day and she fancies hanging out with her friends... Lol

 

[platypus]

Strike action is given notice well in advance.
Only a lazy parent can't get a day off under those circumstances, my partner is strikeing not because she wants to but because she is forced to. The school will shut down for the day and she fancies hanging out with her friends... Lol

Another subjective opinion. I agree it's likely most can get time off in the circumstances but it's not going to be the case for everyone is it?

I thought the point of striking was to stand outside the place of protest and try to raise awareness of the issues, not have a day off with friends?

 

[Pestilence]

It wouldn't be life destroying for me, and presumably a lot of other people. But it could be a damned sight more than "inconvenient" for a lot of people who can't necessarily afford childcare at short notice, and can't get the time off work.

It's not really appropriate to field it as "time with one's children". It's a situation forced upon parents rather than a day off now isn't it?

This line in particular, your emotive histrionics aside, though just shows how narrowminded you are. Perhaps I'm inferring that from what you've said because you're unable to explain yourself clearly or objectively.

Emotive histrionics, not really. Honestly I don't really care either way. How more objective could I be when I've done nothing but make an observation based on individuals in my office who, as described, actively swap empathy for self-interest in explaining their loathing for teachers?

It's not a case with them of saying "Oh bloody hell, now I have to sort this out" and leave it there. Rather, it leads to a full on attack on an entire profession, and vehement dismissal of the worth of educators. They don't care about the reasons behind the action. They only care that their routine is being disrupted. If that isn't the abandonment of empathy, I'd struggle to point out what is.

These are the people I'm talking about, not every single parent out there. Instead of getting angry and belittling people, why not accept it as a fact of life, and being a parent, and get on with things? The world isn't your (their) oyster. Sure, get a bit peeved -- it's only natural -- but to use circumstances like that to join the media-fed rabble close to asking for teachers' heads on pikes is difficult to comprehend and only leads to a rather bleak future for education in the UK.

Perhaps there are parents out there that would take the opportunity to spend some more time with their kids. I'm sure that's not outside the realm of possibility, is it? I'm sure quite a lot lament not having more time with their children due to working schedules, yet the first reaction for some is just how much of a bother it is to sort.

Obviously I can empathise with those parents out there in cruddy and unforgiving jobs that find themselves in a childcare trap because of strikes, but as mentioned these aren't the people I'm talking about.

Apologies for lack of clarity... that is indeed my failing at the moment as I'm posting and running in between work.

Ultimately, it's a touchy subject and will lead to argument and I'm just not sufficiently invested to truly care.

 

[RedvGreenOLD]

Teacher starter salary (min) is £21,804.
Police Officer starter salary (min) is £19,000.
Paramedic starter salary (min) is £20,000.

Let us just consider the roles and responsibilities of each of these 3 roles - one teaches 9-5 (approx); one protects and saves lives 12hrs a day; one saves lives 12hrs a day.

Every day, Police Officers don't know what the heck the day will bring - they don't even know if they'll need to go to hospital (or even, worst case, come home at all). Paramedics won't know what is going to come their way, whether they will save lives, or be responsible for keeping many people alive en route to a hospital.

Check here for the pay scales for Teaching, including some of the various 'optional bundles' they can opt in to collect more cash. { Link }

My salary scale, like many others is about a £4k range. I'm already at the top of it, yet cannot progress due to the economic climate. We have had staff cuts, have more work, less pay, more responsibility, more accountability and less support from Management. Teaching is not *this* bad.

 

[platypus]

Ultimately, it's a touchy subject and will lead to argument and I'm just not sufficiently invested to truly care.

Now this we can both definitely agree on.

 

[Pestilence]

Now this we can both definitely agree on.

HIGH FIVE!

 

[Diagro]

Teacher starter salary (min) is £21,804.
Police Officer starter salary (min) is £19,000.
Paramedic starter salary (min) is £20,000.

Let us just consider the roles and responsibilities of each of these 3 roles - one teaches 9-5 (approx); one protects and saves lives 12hrs a day; one saves lives 12hrs a day.

Every day, Police Officers don't know what the heck the day will bring - they don't even know if they'll need to go to hospital (or even, worst case, come home at all). Paramedics won't know what is going to come their way, whether they will save lives, or be responsible for keeping many people alive en route to a hospital.

Check here for the pay scales for Teaching, including some of the various 'optional bundles' they can opt in to collect more cash. { Link }


My salary scale, like many others is about a £4k range. I'm already at the top of it, yet cannot progress due to the economic climate. We have had staff cuts, have more work, less pay, more responsibility, more accountability and less support from Management. Teaching is not *this* bad.

Teachers are not 9-5 more 7:45-5:30

Also I think being responsible for 30 four year olds as my missus is is much more important than chucking drunks in a cell for the night. I have watched road wars I know what its all about

Do police teach your children all day everyday? No

Oh and another thing for all parents here, Dont teach your child the alphabet using the capital letter sounds.
They have to learn using the sounding letters such as a b c d not ADCD

 

[Xordium]

Let us just consider the roles and responsibilities of each of these 3 roles

Why not examine the training required before you get those sums and then the amount that will have to be paid back over life to cover the personal cost of that training.

Then look at career progression and expected end salary and general progression.

Kind of gives you a very different picture.

 

[Diagro]

Why not examine the training required before you get those sums and then the amount that will have to be paid back over life to cover the personal cost of that training.

Then look at career progression and expected end salary and general progression.

Kind of gives you a very different picture.

+1

Teachers nowadays need a degree and a pgce that's already around 4-5 years at uni @ 9k minimum a year not to forgot the extra loan on top to survive.

Police officers Dont need any qulifications bar school and mabey some college if possible.

Paramedics I'm not sure about but its still less expense than a teachers studying.

Hmmmm

 

[Castiel]

Teachers are not 9-5 more 7:45-5:30

Not in the three secondary schools and one primary school near to us...the caretaker doesn't arrive to unlock until 8am and the first staff normally rock up at around 8-15. On most days the car park is empty by 4.30 at the latest. So I would say that 9-5 is a reasonable view, its probably more accurate to say it is 8-30 to 4-30 though.

And saying looking after 30 young kids within a school environment is more important than what a Police Officer does is laughable, by what measure? are they even comparable?

And another thing, teaching your children using Phonemic Awareness and Phonics is only one way to do it, and the best approach is to use a range of techniques (including capital letter sounds) and whatever else the child finds comfortable.

Is your other half actually qualified yet, or still in training?

 

[Xordium]

Paramedics I'm not sure about but its still less expense than a teachers studying.

2-5 years training for a diploma or a degree.

However, teachers are not under the obligation then to continually further their development to the same level. Moreover, teachers have the capacity to earn more far quickly and have a higher ladder to climb.

Teachers get it easier than some professions but it is far from an easy job.

 

[Xordium]

And another thing, teaching your children using Phonemic Awareness and Phonics is only one way to do it, and the best approach is to use a range of techniques (including capital letter sounds) and whatever else the child finds comfortable.

I would disagree with this I would wager that phonic works very well for some children but not others. What all children at that age though would benefit from, as anyone who is learning something new, is a consistent approach not a little bit from a number of methodologies.

My younger kids have done far better with phonics than my older kids did it more traditional ways. However, I would say I was taught to read English on "Jon has the ball run Jon run" - nowadays they get learn with star wars, avengers and the transformers. Think I would have done better if they had given those books to me!

 

[Diagro]

Not in the three secondary schools and one primary school near to us...the caretaker doesn't arrive to unlock until 8am and the first staff normally rock up at around 8-15. On most days the car park is empty by 4.30 at the latest. So I would say that 9-5 is a reasonable view, its probably more accurate to say it is 8-30 to 4-30 though.

And saying looking after 30 young kids within a school environment is more important than what a Police Officer does is laughable, by what measure? are they even comparable?

And another thing, teaching your children using Phonemic Awareness and Phonics is only one way to do it, and the best approach is to use a range of techniques (including capital letter sounds) and whatever else the child finds comfortable.

Is your other half actually qualified yet, or still in training?

Yea she is and has been teaching for 2 years.

The school she is now at is using Phonics a lot and her previous school was using a new thing called read write ink.

I don't know half of what she does and only what she tells me so you may be a teacher with far more knowledge than myself, after all i am a lowly Solar Engineer

Yea I say looking after 30 children is comparable to a police office walking around looking for trouble all day, actually its more important because the children's future depends on it!
Yes police have their uses and i respect them but when compared to a role in society that will allow the next generation achieve greater.. i know who i will pick

 

[Castiel]

+1

Teachers nowadays need a degree and a pgce that's already around 4-5 years at uni @ 9k minimum a year not to forgot the extra loan on top to survive.

Police officers Dont need any qulifications bar school and mabey some college if possible.

Paramedics I'm not sure about but its still less expense than a teachers studying.

Hmmmm

Training a Police Officer is an ongoing procedure, many officers now have a degree, with much of the recruitment coming from graduates programmes. Police recruitment assessments are not easy and to suggest that being a teacher is somehow more valuable simply because they do a degree is disingenuous. Also a PCGE can be done whilst working, through schemes such as the School Direct or SCITT programs which pay a bursary of up to £20k in support or through a salaried system for those with relevant experience outside of teaching. There are also schemes (at least one that I knew of) that mean ypou can become a QTS without a degree if you have other skills and qualifications.

So you can become a teacher with a 3 year degree and then work while obtaining your one year (2 years if p/t outside of a school environment) PCGE.

Not much different from many other comparable professions such as accountancy for example.