GF wants me to go to church with her......

Freefaller · 16 Oct 2013 at 11:38

Delvis said:
Late to the party....

Say no, if you don't want to go, you don't have to. Presumably she is aware of your beliefs and you are aware of hers, she should respect that.

My GF goes to Church every Sunday, one to attend and two to play at the church, I do not.

Perfect resolution to the situation.

Freefaller · 16 Oct 2013 at 11:39

Zatoichi.uK said:
Atheism is often misunderstood as the belief that there is no God but this is incorrect. Atheism is the lack of belief, usually brought about by a lack of evidence.

Theism = I believe there is a God.

Atheism = I do not accept the above.

It's not a belief structure.

It's a belief that there is no God no? Therefore a belief?

(I'm just winding you up, I take your point on board but just see it slightly differently.

)

I find ardent atheists harder work as they try and evangelise their "beliefs" and purposefully pick a fight to try and prove a point which I find a little hard work and unnecessary when there are a lot more fun and interesting things that undoubtedly we have in common to discuss. I'm not saying this is you, I'm just making an observation from experience.

Vulcan · 16 Oct 2013 at 11:43

Freefaller said:
It's a belief that there is no God no? Therefore a belief?

Well then everything is a belief. You're not 500 years old, that's a belief, the text in your signature is red, that's a belief etc.

Zatoichi.uK · 16 Oct 2013 at 11:50

Freefaller said:
It's a belief that there is no God no? Therefore a belief? (I'm just winding you up, I take your point on board but just see it slightly differently. )

I find ardent atheists harder work as they try and evangelise their "beliefs" and purposefully pick a fight to try and prove a point which I find a little hard work and unnecessary when there are a lot more fun and interesting things that undoubtedly we have in common to discuss. I'm not saying this is you, I'm just making an observation from experience.

Oh I know what you're saying and I too find some atheist standpoints as annoying the theist ones. I just wanted to clear up what atheism actually is as it's frequently misunderstood.

TwsT · 16 Oct 2013 at 11:53

i wouldn't go, what christians do is upto them I enjoy sitting in pants playing games on sundays

m4rk84 · 16 Oct 2013 at 16:43

Freefaller said:
It's a belief that there is no God no? Therefore a belief? (I'm just winding you up, I take your point on board but just see it slightly differently. )

I find ardent atheists harder work as they try and evangelise their "beliefs" and purposefully pick a fight to try and prove a point which I find a little hard work and unnecessary when there are a lot more fun and interesting things that undoubtedly we have in common to discuss. I'm not saying this is you, I'm just making an observation from experience.

I always used to think of atheism as essentially the belief that there being a god was a no more likely conclusion then a limitless list of other possibilities. I don't really think there's any difference at all between an agnostic or an atheist.

However in recent years the word atheist has really been tarnished, nowadays many atheists are preachers in the same vein priests preach religion. It's pretty uncomfortable.

Nowadays, if asked I will declare myself agnostic. I see no need to scorn other people's beliefs.

Delvis · 16 Oct 2013 at 17:03

I prefer to put myself in the 'I don't really care to be honest' belief, much easier to explain than, 'ohhhhh I'm agnostic you know'.

FTM · 16 Oct 2013 at 17:09

the other questions is...does she have massive norks..in which case if you dont want to go to church with her..I will

hurfdurf · 16 Oct 2013 at 17:10

Freefaller said:
The thing I don't understand is that for some reason people cannot accept that one can have beliefs without being a Creationist, "bible basher", or evangelical about it.

It is objectively harmful that we allow grown adults to believe in nonsense. It means that people can get away with lying to the public.

"To let things slide for the sake of peace and friendship when a person has clearly gone wrong, and refrain from principled argument because he is an old acquaintance, a fellow townsman, a schoolmate, a close friend, a loved one, an old colleague or old subordinate. Or to touch on the matter lightly instead of going into it thoroughly, so as to keep on good terms. The result is that both the organization and the individual are harmed. This is one type of liberalism."

RoboCod · 16 Oct 2013 at 18:06

Would change GF.

Scrutinize · 16 Oct 2013 at 19:39

hurfdurf said:
It is objectively harmful that we allow grown adults to believe in nonsense. It means that people can get away with lying to the public.

No, what is 'objectively harmful' as you so eloquently put it, is where people try to enforce their viewpoint on others.

Religion does not have exclusivity on this, in-fact far from it as you have consistently proved.

Freefaller · 16 Oct 2013 at 20:56

m4rk84 said:
I always used to think of atheism as essentially the belief that there being a god was a no more likely conclusion then a limitless list of other possibilities. I don't really think there's any difference at all between an agnostic or an atheist.

However in recent years the word atheist has really been tarnished, nowadays many atheists are preachers in the same vein priests preach religion. It's pretty uncomfortable.

Nowadays, if asked I will declare myself agnostic. I see no need to scorn other people's beliefs.

That's fair reasoning.

hurfdurf · 16 Oct 2013 at 23:20

m4rk84 said:
I always used to think of atheism as essentially the belief that there being a god was a no more likely conclusion then a limitless list of other possibilities. I don't really think there's any difference at all between an agnostic or an atheist.

The most staunch atheist Richard Dawkins thinks along the same lines as you iirc, only he can see the problem with letting people believe what ever they want.

hurfdurf · 16 Oct 2013 at 23:21

Scrutinize said:
No, what is 'objectively harmful' as you so eloquently put it, is where people try to enforce their viewpoint on others.

Religion does not have exclusivity on this, in-fact far from it as you have consistently proved.

You can have your own opinion, you can't have your own facts.

Scrutinize · 16 Oct 2013 at 23:22

hurfdurf said:
You can have your own opinion, you can't have your own facts.

Excellent advice, perhaps you should listen to it.

hurfdurf · 16 Oct 2013 at 23:44

Scrutinize said:
Excellent advice, perhaps you should listen to it.

U WOT M8

Castiel · 16 Oct 2013 at 23:47

"They are ill discoverers that think there is no land, when they can see nothing but sea."

Sir Francis Bacon.

hurfdurf · 17 Oct 2013 at 00:45

Castiel said:
"They are ill discoverers that think there is no land, when they can see nothing but sea."

Sir Francis Bacon.

No ones saying there is no land, its just until land shows itself, its not worth paying attention to anyone who claims they know for certain there is land, exactly where it is and what it wants us to do, and people supporting the idea of there being a specific land of some sort, are doing harm by stopping us concentrating on surviving on the sea.

Castiel · 17 Oct 2013 at 01:06

hurfdurf said:
No ones saying there is no land, its just until land shows itself, its not worth paying attention to anyone who claims they know for certain there is land, exactly where it is and what it wants us to do, and people supporting the idea of there being a specific land of some sort, are doing harm by stopping us concentrating on surviving on the sea.

The quote applies to both definitive positions, the extremes if you like.

If we accept you premise equally then, it follows that it's not worth paying attention to those who say for certain there is no land...and Carl Sagan would be horrified to think that he is being used to justify your kind of polarised and negative attitude to others and their beliefs...another quote from Carl Sagan:

“An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because God can be relegated to remote times and places and to ultimate causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do now to be sure that no such God exists. To be certain of the existence of God and to be certain of the nonexistence of God seem to me to be the confident extremes in a subject so riddled with doubt and uncertainty as to inspire very little confidence indeed.”

Conversations with Carl Sagan...you should read it, it might broaden your experience and loosen those prejudices of yours somewhat.

One if my favourite quotes and one I attempt to live up to particularly given my chosen field is "Sceptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense." .

An insightful and intelligent man Carl Sagan, the world of science, free thought and philosophy is far poorer without him.

hurfdurf · 17 Oct 2013 at 01:27

Castiel said:
If we accept you premise equally then, it follows that it's not worth paying attention to those who say for certain there is no land

hurfdurf said:
No ones saying there is no land

Did you misread my post or something?

A couple of posts earlier I even posted

hurfdurf said:
The most staunch atheist Richard Dawkins thinks along the same lines as you iirc, only he can see the problem with letting people believe what ever they want.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...awkins-I-cant-be-sure-God-does-not-exist.html

Richard Dawkins: "I can't be sure God does not exist"