David Cameron makes threat to media over NSA and GCHQ leaks

[MrMoonX]

I'm against statutory regulation of the press but stunts like this and phone tapping doesn't do the industry any favors.

are you kidding?

comparing the disclosure of the fact that GCHQ has been tapping into all our communications and storing our data without our knowledge is the same as some sun reporters hacking phones???

just lol

we absolutely have the right to know that the intelligence community are collecting all this stuff about everyone. The PM is just bruised because it got out and is trying to use the national security card to divert the attention from the real story

 

[Danthus]

are you kidding?

comparing the disclosure of the fact that GCHQ has been tapping into all our communications and storing our data without our knowledge is the same as some sun reporters hacking phones???

just lol

we absolutely have the right to know that the intelligence community are collecting all this stuff about everyone. The PM is just bruised because it got out and is trying to use the national security card to divert the attention from the real story

But we don't need to know how it is done.

 

[MrMoonX]

But we don't need to know how it is done.

yes we do especially if its as invasive as tapping the root cables of the internet

do you really think the terrorist boogeymen are really that naive to not know this already. The real issue is that terrorism is just an excuse to erode our rights and sink further into a police state slowly but surely

 

[Mittens]

damn too much twitter, tried to star your post Mr Moonx

civil rights erosion is bad, this stuff always seems to go 1 way .. more and more totalitarian.

The mass surveillance seems to me to be a combination of a knee jerk reaction following 9/11 and technology advancing to the point where it is 'do-able'.

The problem is the politicians that green light this stuff may only be in politics for 20 years but the repercussions can last for generations.

I think it needs to be nipped in the bud now before we get to north korea proportions, this endless meme of national security and terrorists around every corner is a load of $%£%^

 

[WillyNelson]

GCHQ has been tapping into all our communications and storing our data without our knowledge

Firstly, they haven't been listening to all your calls and reading all your emails, they just have the capacity to and will do if they think you're being a naughty boy. Don;t flatter yourself by thinking they're interested in you.

Secondly, if you didn't think they could do this before the revalation then you're either stupid or naive.

The main issue here isn't that it is being done, or even how it's done, but that the press released details of which services could be monitored, thereby giving any would be terrorists a steer towards more 'secure' communication methods and away from lines of intelligence gathering by the security services.

I think it's telling that we've not had another successful terror attack on our soil since July 2005 when there must have been many attempts and plans. I expect that as a consequence of certain organisations misplaced sense of liberalism that will change within the next 18 months.

 

[smelly_legend]

I think it's telling that we've not had another successful terror attack on our soil since July 2005 when there must have been many attempts and plans. I expect that as a consequence of certain organisations misplaced sense of liberalism that will change within the next 18 months.

22 May 2013 Two men with cleavers kill British soldier, Lee Rigby in London

 

[m4cc45]

Why didn't the intelligence agencies stop this then? Surely they must have known about it -they're monitoring everything and yet two people manage to kill someone. That's why these policies they have in place have already failed. Terrorists aren't going to email each other and say what there plans are, they aren't going to phone each other.

Anyone who thinks the policies and monitoring we have in place is to stop terrorism is stupid. Unless Merkel is a secret terrorist? The US and UK are as bad as each other and no-one should be allowed to get away with it. Hell the papers 'hacked' the phones and caused uproar (though it was basically people not changing there default voice mail PIN - not sure how this can be classed as hacking) and I see this as a more serious violation of peoples trust. Ethically it's wrong on so many levels.

I agree with previous posters - terrorism is the buzz word to get government policies through.


M.

 

[Amp34]

Firstly, they haven't been listening to all your calls and reading all your emails, they just have the capacity to and will do if they think you're being a naughty boy. Don;t flatter yourself by thinking they're interested in you.

Secondly, if you didn't think they could do this before the revalation then you're either stupid or naive.

The main issue here isn't that it is being done, or even how it's done, but that the press released details of which services could be monitored, thereby giving any would be terrorists a steer towards more 'secure' communication methods and away from lines of intelligence gathering by the security services.

I think it's telling that we've not had another successful terror attack on our soil since July 2005 when there must have been many attempts and plans. I expect that as a consequence of certain organisations misplaced sense of liberalism that will change within the next 18 months.

You're missing the point here. The main issue here is in fact that GCHQ and the NSA are breaking the law and or subverting the wording of the law for their own benefit. If you break the law and/or are bending laws and regulations for your own benefit then it needs to be exposed and pressure put on governments and law makers to make sure either the law is changed (with the consent of the people) or the practice is stopped.

It's not one rule for them and another rule for us, and it should never be!

As for the methods, Bin laden had no electrical communication devices in his compound because it was well known the intelligence agencies could intercept calls, texts and emails... The scandal here is the axle of the collection.

22 May 2013 Two men with cleavers kill British soldier, Lee Rigby in London

And how many Islamic terrorist attacks were there in the UK before 2005?

You can't use an isolated incident (and two mentalists) to base a massive terrorist threat on.

 

[smelly_legend]

I imagine it's about making money and getting nice fat returns on certain investments for certain people. In this case, it's about what you know as well as who you know. When you are gathering data on "friends", it begs the question - why?

 

[glenimp617]

I heard it on Sky News last night

Basically Cameron will ask the newspapers to keep quiet (The Guardian has some very juicy info which it has destroyed), else he will go through the courts to shut them up.

I'm all for protecting the country, but this isn't about protecting us. This isn't about them spying on terrorists, it's about them spying on US!

Remember, if it wasn't for that snowden fella, we wouldn't be speaking about it now. Merkel wouldn't have found out about the mobile tapping either. Two faced or what!

They closed the air space to prevent him leaving russia, but now using intelligent HE leaked! amazing

 

[zenf]

Secondly, if you didn't think they could do this before the revalation then you're either stupid or naive.

Firstly, the fact you misspelt revelation is quite ironic.

Secondly, why would it make worldwide headline news if the only people who weren't already aware were stupid?

It just seems like the thing people say when they want try to appear clever. Do you have anything to show that you thought the government was illegally spying on people before the leaks?

 

[Amp34]

The Guardian didn't destroy their data. They transferred it to their US office and then let a couple of intelligence men destroy a laptop and HDD, making clear what they had done...

It was a futile attempt by the government to shut them up as a court case would have taken months and made it far wider publicised. The Guardian allowed it as it didn't affect them in the slightest and it delayed/stopped any court case...

 

[asim18]

If anyone thinks this is about actually stopping "terrorism" you couldn't be more wrong (or brainwashed) I don't blame you. Governments are masters at brainwashing the masses.

There are three things which are fundamental:

• Terrorism happens
• Terrorism is universally hated
• Governments want to seize your rights.

It's like a match made in heaven, they'd be stupid not to use the terrorism card to their advantage.

The key thing everyone must remember is: Terrorism happens regardless of anything!

 

[smelly_legend]

And how many Islamic terrorist attacks were there in the UK before 2005?

You can't use an isolated incident (and two mentalists) to base a massive terrorist threat on.

You are misunderstanding my example. Is this the not the sort of radical ideology that the government agencies are trying to stop? If this example, with the two same people that done this, flew a plane in to a building you would you still describe it as an "isolated incident"? It was for similar ideological reasons and it is murder. Also, tell that to the parents of the man who actually died. BTW, I am against the tapping etc. My point of the example being if they can't stop this, what hope is there of the government agencies stopping anything?#

Good police work and a strong community is what is needed, not all the cloak and dagger pish.

 

[olivier renault]

The leaks happened because of serious ethical concerns, not because of terrorist sympathies, hacking, spying, or criminal intent. So, stop blaming the messengers.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

Seems to me that this is no different to what Google or Facebook do everytime you browse the internet.

Data mining is not a new thing. In this day and age - nothing is private. Either the government is filching your details, or a marketing company, or your bank, or the NHS, or some hacker in a foreign country via malware in that viagra email.

We have this obsession with maintaining our privacy in this country and it is based on an outlook that is 25 years out of date. The truth is the government neither cares nor wants to care about 99.9999999% of the information they collect.

Besides, all of your personal information is easily available to anyone with the know how, and it is a beast we have collectively helped to create through virile consumerism and increased dependency on technology. Medical records, financial records, employment history, tax history, criminal history, sex offence history, allergies, insurance claims, whether you like heterosexual porn or gay porn, what films you like, what hobbies you have, what technology you own/want to own, what you have recently purchased off Amazon, even down to what your house looks like via google earth, as well as floor plans if you have happened to advertise it on Rightmove.....every facet of most peoples lives is already out there.

We have soaked up the convenience of technology like a sponge, yet some act so shocked and surprised to learn of the side effects, or some of the ways the technology and data can be abused.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Ignore.

 

[stockhausen]

Seems to me that this is no different to what Google or Facebook do everytime you browse the internet.

Data mining is not a new thing. In this day and age - nothing is private. Either the government is filching your details, or a marketing company, or your bank, or the NHS, or some hacker in a foreign country via malware in that viagra email. ...

I don't think that Google, Facebook, any marketing company, your bank or some hacker in a foreign country pretend that they are collecting personal data in order to prevent terrorism.

I believe that in the 1930s, the Nazis used Government data to help them round up Jews, Communists and dissidents. Not of course that any British Government would ever try to anticipate and stifle protest


As to the NHS, I would love to hear your fascinating explanation as to how and why they are "filching your details" - perhaps they are selling them on to BUPA?

 

[kindai]

Who cares?

No realy, do you realy care if the government which already has *masses* of information from you through NI, the banks, NHS, DVLA, the education system etc etc etc.... has a little bit more information.

The only people who they are interested in are potential wrongdoers.

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.