That Tesla S is incredible....

While you make some interesting points about the cost of electricity and the tax on fuels, your point about battery cost is invalid.
If you are going to make that comparison then you need to do the same for ICE vehicles too. Engines don't last forever.
 
Is there any news on Tesla licensing out their quick charge things so it can become a standard?
It would be dreadful to have every manufacturer having their own filling stations.
 
Rilot said:
While you make some interesting points about the cost of electricity and the tax on fuels, your point about battery cost is invalid.
If you are going to make that comparison then you need to do the same for ICE vehicles too. Engines don't last forever.
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Batteries are not engines. Electric motors don't last forever either. Nor do petrol tanks, which are the most direct parallel with batteries.

So no, my point about battery cost is not invalid.

You could reasonably argue that it would be more accurate to include the costs of an ICE and fuel tank for ICEV running costs and electric motor(s) and batteries for EV.

That would still be a far, far higher cost for EVs than for ICEVs. You're not going to be paying £18,000 for a new engine, or anything like £18,000.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
People buying £50k cars dont really care about /mile pennies anyway.
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True, but the costs aren't dramatically better for the cheapest EVs, which are still far more expensive than comparable ICEVs precisely because of the battery cost. If it costs a car company £10,000 per car for the batteries (which would get about 35KWh, enough for a range of about 140 miles in good conditions and normal driving), that £10,000 is going on the selling price of the car. It has to - they can hardly sell at a loss.

EVs are currently viable in some circumstances and will probably become more viable in more circumstances in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if they became the norm in just a few decades. If there are dramatic advances in battery technology, EVs would become clearly superior to ICEVs. The potential is there.

I'm just objecting to the false claims about current running costs. 1.5p/mile for a sporty saloon is not a true figure, not by a long chalk, and the comparisons with ICEV running costs are simply fiction.
 
Let's look at it realistically. In cloudy, cold, short day Blighty, you'll be lucky to see 200 miles out of one of these even in the first year and the charm of these would wear out very quickly. You will need a driveway. For two cars. One with charger. One for when the charger just won't cut it. They will do for commuting (although they will surely be slightly too large for London streets and parking lots), but a Londoner with one of these will still barely manage to get from London to Cornwall in a day if he manages to beg a plug in at rather lengthy coffee stop at Starbucks Bristol. 7 hour journey to Edinburgh on one tank of diesel will now take two days. Christmas wine trip to Dunkirk will now be conditional on P&O letting you plug your Le Blanc Flèche inside the ferry. Return business trip to Berlin and back will now be a 19th century horse carriage experience of 6 days and 5 nights in motels with just 11 hours of driving between them only and only if, all of them let you park right by the building and run the cable through the window. You can leave it at the airport when you fly out this weekend only if they don't move it and don't unplug it.

Everywhere you go, everywhere you move, further than 100 miles from home, you will need to make prior arrangements. Every time you come back to your own driveway you will need a clear plan for the next day and discipline to make sure that next time your wife calls from emergency room about little Johnny, you do not get anxious and sweaty in traffic to Dartford Tolls when the display shows 25% charge left and dropping and you still have to do 107 miles around M25 and it's too cold and too dark to switch off everything inside. And every month and year the range and problem becomes significantly more noticeable.

I guess what I'm saying is - any every day electric car, without continuous range extender engine is still like moving around on a short leash. I'm sure Tesla S is fun, it looks great, but it's fit for very specific purpose. In this particular example - that purpose would be second car for shopping trips and short commuting. Instead of open top Porsche perhaps. And at that point the whole green credo and the cost just stops adding up in our territory.
 
Angilion said:
True, but the costs aren't dramatically better for the cheapest EVs, which are still far more expensive than comparable ICEVs precisely because of the battery cost. If it costs a car company £10,000 per car for the batteries (which would get about 35KWh, enough for a range of about 140 miles in good conditions and normal driving), that £10,000 is going on the selling price of the car. It has to - they can hardly sell at a loss.

EVs are currently viable in some circumstances and will probably become more viable in more circumstances in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if they became the norm in just a few decades. If there are dramatic advances in battery technology, EVs would become clearly superior to ICEVs. The potential is there.

I'm just objecting to the false claims about current running costs. 1.5p/mile for a sporty saloon is not a true figure, not by a long chalk, and the comparisons with ICEV running costs are simply fiction.
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Is it ok if I object to the relevance of that to a Tesla Model S where the main benefit of it being an EV comes from a raft of attributes that are better than its competitor set?

Clearly this car makes more sense as a product as premium expensive cars have an easier job masking the battery material cost.
 
v0n said:
I'm sure Tesla S is fun, it looks great, but it's fit for very specific purpose. In this particular example - that purpose would be second car for shopping trips and short commuting. Instead of open top Porsche perhaps. And at that point the whole green credo and the cost just stops adding up in our territory.
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You mean the MAIN car then and then a second car needed for the big range days?

You dont buy £50k cars for green credentials and cost do you ? :confused:
 
Lol von, what a load of tripe.
Miss the bit when tesla are going to in stall their super charges across the uk.
Huge amount of people have drives, those that dont will have to wait foor on road charging. But still a decent sized market.

How many people drive close to 200+ miles a day. Isnt the stat something like 80+% is under 30miles a day.meaning loads of charge left for any emergency.

Yeah its not suitable for everyone, buit its suitable for a lot and when the in fastructure grows, suitable for most.
Its certainly not just a shopping car.
 
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Does anyone know if they are offering PCP / hire-purchases agreements on these? That would remove any of the long-term worries about battery replacements whilst still offering cheap p/mile driving - I would bet for a lot of people that would go a long way to offset their petrol / diesel costs each month. Heck, I will be spending £300 / month for fuel on my commute alone. Plus no road tax (so saves £400 / year from comparable performance saloons).

It makes a great company car choice too when you look at the tax benefits: http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/incentives/UK
 
Got to admit this is the first electric car I could see myself owning one day. Performance looks like a lot of fun and that interior is a techies wet dream. :o

Couple of points though:

1. Engine Noise? Any petrol head loves the sound of big V8 singing under the bonnet. While this has the performance, do they have an option to replicate that sound when wanted?

2. Resale value - With the batteries having a limited life and being a considerable cost, what do people think will happen to the used car market when electric cars become more mainstream
 
I don't think the lack of noise will be a problem for many. I've driven a few electric cars and the lack of noise hasn't trouble me much. They tend to make their own curious kind of background hum instead, and you soon find other things to occupy your mind. Some love the relative silence as well, especially when you're using something on a daily basis.
 
Glaucus said:
Lol von, what a load of tripe.
Miss the bit when tesla are going to in stall their super charges across the uk.
Huge amount of people have drives, those that dont will have to wait for on road charging. But still a decent sized market.

How many people drive close to 200+ miles a day. Isnt the stat something like 80+% is under 30miles a day.meaning loads of charge left for any emergency.
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Pink glasses there. 13 amp plug at home will provide at up to 30 miles per hour, requiring circa 10 hours to fully charge for next day. Industrial installation will double the charge, still requiring 5-6 hour pit stop before you can go shopping after returning from work. Supercharging stations can deliver full charge in 1-1.5 hours (not that the 1 hour stop in the middle of commute would ever be convenient) but presuming that the whole "stations across UK" from a boutique car maker like Tesla with 16,000 cars across entire world will actually have enough stations to be always on your way to your destination, conveniently placed by every hotel and you will be the only Tesla in need to spend few hours there, might be a little optimistic.

People who buy comfortable expensive cruisers are mainly those who spend a lot of time in one per day. Hours of "me time" a day. It's their living room. Mileage is everything in that car sector. What percentage of people buy 50k car to do 30 miles a day? And how many of those would care enough about 0-60 in fast but short bursts to switch their BMW, Land Rover or Jaguar for one? Without milage, this is just California poser car. It's a car for concierge doctor or exec with flexible enough schedule to accommodate long pit stops between golf courses and evening parties. It's a fashion statement for thanksgiving dinner at Al Gore's ranch. Like those Hollywood stars that drive Prius.

There is enough space onboard tesla for range extender, and there is no excuse not to fit one. Other than green douchebaggery.
 
Out of interest if you run out of juice say on the motorway, what happens next?

I presume the car will roll to a halt but it would have to be recovered to the nearest charging point would it not? Breakdown services are going to be busy bees!
 
JamesM said:
Out of interest if you run out of juice say on the motorway, what happens next?

I presume the car will roll to a halt but it would have to be recovered to the nearest charging point would it not? Breakdown services are going to be busy bees!
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It does exactly the same as what happens when you run out of petrol on the motorway, surely :confused:
 
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