Should Gary Barlow return his OBE?

To the people saying, 'no-one should pay anymore tax than they are legally required to', a lot of you seem to be forgetting that a lot of these 'avoidance' schemes would be found illegal if they were taken to court, but part of the problem is that HMRC has limited resources and can't take everyone to court.

Just because they don't go to trial, doesn't mean it's not illegal.
 
kissenger said:
To the people saying, 'no-one should pay anymore tax than they are legally required to', a lot of you seem to be forgetting that a lot of these 'avoidance' schemes would be found illegal if they were taken to court, but part of the problem is that HMRC has limited resources and can't take everyone to court.

Just because they don't go to trial, doesn't mean it's not illegal.
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No, that's illegal tax evasion, not legal tax avoidance.
 
kissenger said:
To the people saying, 'no-one should pay anymore tax than they are legally required to', a lot of you seem to be forgetting that a lot of these 'avoidance' schemes would be found illegal if they were taken to court, but part of the problem is that HMRC has limited resources and can't take everyone to court.

Just because they don't go to trial, doesn't mean it's not illegal.
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It helps to actually read the thread, where this has been explained about ten times already.
 
kissenger said:
To the people saying, 'no-one should pay anymore tax than they are legally required to', a lot of you seem to be forgetting that a lot of these 'avoidance' schemes would be found illegal if they were taken to court, but part of the problem is that HMRC has limited resources and can't take everyone to court.

Just because they don't go to trial, doesn't mean it's not illegal.
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If it's illegal it's tax evasion and justified.

HMRC will prosecute any proven case of evasion by the way, you appear to have got the completely wrong impression yourself that they won't because of stuff like money which the government literally has an infinite amount of if they see fit.
 
kitch9 said:
If it's illegal it's tax evasion and justified.

HMRC will prosecute any proven case of evasion by the way, you appear to have got the completely wrong impression yourself that they won't because of stuff like money which the government literally has an infinite amount of if they see fit.
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I don't think you've understood his post tbh - it's clear that he understands the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance, as does everyone else despite the false arguments from those seeking to justify aggressive, large scale tax avoidance.

You've got it the wrong way round - prosecutions are the means by which evasion cases are proven. They don't prosecute every case either, quite often they'll come to a negotiated settlement with a company to avoid costly and complex legal actions.
 
scorza said:
I don't think you've understood his post tbh - it's clear that he understands the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance, as does everyone else despite the false arguments from those seeking to justify aggressive, large scale tax avoidance.

You've got it the wrong way round - prosecutions are the means by which evasion cases are proven. They don't prosecute every case either, quite often they'll come to a negotiated settlement with a company to avoid costly and complex legal actions.
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Thanks for pointing this out.

This comment from kitch9 - 'HMRC will prosecute any proven case of evasion by the way' because they have 'an infinite amount' of money - is probably the most stupid thing I've read all week, and I read the Sun yesterday, so that's saying something. Firstly because, as was pointed out by scorza, you can't have a 'proven case of evasion' until it's been prosecuted (i.e. taken to court). You've got it completely the wrong way round.

And no, the government does not have an 'infinite' supply of money. Hypothetically it could print all the money it wanted, but in the real world that doesn't happen because they don't want to jeopardise the value of pound sterling. What's more, HMRC is a government department with a budget (which FYI has falled significantly in recent years) and line management just like every other department, so they clearly don't have the resources to prosecute every case of even suspected tax evasion, even if they wanted to. Which was my original point: there are many cases of 'avoision' which if they were brought before a court would be found to be 'evasion' and, by extension, illegal.
 
kissenger said:
Thanks for pointing this out.

This comment from kitch9 - 'HMRC will prosecute any proven case of evasion by the way' because they have 'an infinite amount' of money - is probably the most stupid thing I've read all week, and I read the Sun yesterday, so that's saying something. Firstly because, as was pointed out by scorza, you can't have a 'proven case of evasion' until it's been prosecuted (i.e. taken to court). You've got it completely the wrong way round.

And no, the government does not have an 'infinite' supply of money. Hypothetically it could print all the money it wanted, but in the real world that doesn't happen because they don't want to jeopardise the value of pound sterling. What's more, HMRC is a government department with a budget (which FYI has falled significantly in recent years) and line management just like every other department, so they clearly don't have the resources to prosecute every case of even suspected tax evasion, even if they wanted to. Which was my original point: there are many cases of 'avoision' which if they were brought before a court would be found to be 'evasion' and, by extension, illegal.
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Of course they prosecute all proven cases of evasion, either by an on the spot fine or in court depending on severity or scale.

Why wouldn't they when they have those powers?

And yes the reason money works is because it is infinite, whereas the confidence in it is not.
 
kitch9 said:
Of course they prosecute all proven cases of evasion, either by an on the spot fine or in court depending on severity or scale.

Why wouldn't they when they have those powers?

And yes the reason money works is because it is infinite, whereas the confidence in it is not.
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I don't think you're following what's going on here. How do you 'prove' a case of evasion before going to court?
 
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