SNP Referendum Nonsense

Biohazard said:
Oh noes, not the successor state argument.

There is plenty evidence to suggest that Scotland will become a member more than likely very quickly, it's out there alongside the plenty of statements from people who disagree.

The only people who can obtain an answer is Westminster, and they refuse to do so thus keep the Scottish electorate in the dark.

I see no real legitimate reason for Scotland to be treated like an international pariah state as many seem to infer.
Click to expand...

Oh noes... The existing state argument...

Again, care to provide the evidence to back up your claims? I've provided evidence for my claims...

No one (or at least very few people) are suggesting Scotland will become a pariah state, however we can't continue suggesting that Scotland is going to be all gold and diamonds with no actual data... In all honesty it'll probably be exactly the same as it is now for most people. You can see how the independence debate is going to go though. Economics. much like most political parties manifestos before a major vote it's all about tax cuts and increased spending, no actual explanation of where the money is actually going to come from, except "oil"...but them that depends on whether you believe Scotland is contributing more per bead than it is taking out. Considering multiple studies that point to completely opposing views on that matter I'm imlnclined to say no one actually has a ******* clue on that...
 
scorza said:
I don't understand why a lot of the arguments from non-Scots against Scottish Independence involve scenarios where Scotland goes bankrupt or at least has to begin a harsh austerity programme. If that were true then surely they should be wanting Scotland to leave as the rest of the UK would be better off. The Conservatives would certainly be better off if Scotland left - they'd be in power for ages. I just think that if we want Scotland to stay part of the Union (and I personally do) we have to acknowledge how we're all better together rather than patronising doomsday scenarios if we split.

@Biohazard - any thoughts on the Celtic banners last night?
Click to expand...

Exactly!
 
I'm not sure why people keep going on about oil, it's not really featured much in the debate. Nothing like it did in previous decades. It's kind of a given now, it's just about who controls it.

The Treasury calculate it to be a £1 subsidy per Scot per year, somehow.

Most of this has all been covered at length in the other threads, and press, and media to certain extents.
 
I think people are wasting valuable effort here.

Scotland voting indépendance would be totally crazy. Some of the comments that people on the 'Yes' campaign have come out with scare the hell out of me. A good, paraphrased example was:

<Yes Man> Things like the BBC, we'll take ownership of all of the assets in Scotland, turn it into the SBC, and get the BBC material broadcast in Scotland with an agreement
<Interviewer>....so you'll pay for the programmes, things like Dr Who etc aren't free to make
<Yes Man> We'll come to an agreement, we can offer them programmes too !
<Interviewer>.....so you'll pay....?
<Yes Man> We'll come to an agreement, its what companies do

The whole thing is based on basically being gifted and getting 'best case' out of every deal. I think the harsh reality is, it would be almost impossible to go independent, irrespective of a yes majority. You'd never be able to fund setting up your own Driving Licence/Passport/Currency/Broadcasting/etc... People won't line up to just give you stuff, you'll have to pay for it.
 
Biohazard said:
As varied as those who you seem to believe.

Go look.
Click to expand...

That's a no then... I took the effort to find links to my assertions... But as I said before, it answers the question in one way.

Or is this all based on a single statement by a catalunian MEP with a vested interest in Scotland due to his parties want of an independent Catalonia?
 
Amp34 said:
That's a no then... I took the effort to find links to my assertions... But as I said before, it answers the question in one way.

Or is this all based on a single statement by a catalunian MEP with a vested interest in Scotland due to his parties want of an independent Catalonia?
Click to expand...

There are some out there saying there is no legal precedence to prevent it, but they also say member agreement would be needed with the assumption it'll occur.
 
I don't really care if scotland stay or go quite frankly so consider myself pretty neutral on this.
My take is Salmond is in my view by far the worst of the 4 politicians I see regularly on the news (Cameron/Clegg/Miliband/Salmond). I realyl struggle to take him seriously as he always seems to be against the weight of evidence.

Scotland would be breaking new ground for the EU and as such it would likely take years and years to get anywhere. It takes typically 10 years to gain EU membership and thats following the "accepted" rules. Setting out to pick and choose which bits of which rules you want to apply may be possible in the long run but I struggle to see how this could be expeditied.

Lastly but to my mind probably most importantly is that the vast majority of the key issues seem to be based on negotiation/talks/compromise. ALL of those things require both/all parties to WANT to negotiate. If one doesn't you can't force them, Salmond alluded to this by basically saying if UK government refused to negotiate then Scotland would not take a share of the national debt for example.

I do not doubt NATO will allow Scotland to join, they would be just like plenty of other "non player" countries who support with a few aircraft, some troops on the ground etc. The true power resides with the nations that can force project which requires nukes and/or aircraft carriers. Scotland would have neither.
 
Pudney said:
There are some out there saying there is no legal precedence to prevent it, but they also say member agreement would be needed with the assumption it'll occur.
Click to expand...

Exactly, therein lies the problem. At the very best assention would need a all member states to agree, at worst it would mean Scotland would have to jump through the same hoops as any other new nation wanting to join the EU, euro and all.
 
Its intersting that Salmond wants in to the EU, but if there was a in/out vote in the UK tomorrow I have no doubt most people would vote out...
 
Amp34 said:
Exactly, therein lies the problem. At the very best assention would need a all member states to agree, at worst it would mean Scotland would have to jump through the same hoops as any other new nation wanting to join the EU, euro and all.
Click to expand...

The only people who can find out is Westminster and they refuse to ask.

Again, you can't be forced to join the Euro.

Anyway, caught this earlier


With friends like these..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom