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Maxwell - Shipping By March 2014

Not funny at all Nelly. I said the Titan would be "Top dog" for two years and I was 14 months out :D

I really hope they don't repeat the 7 series tbh.

  • Titan release, its expensive but the guys that can afford it buy it with the knowledge that it will be the fastest NVidia card for a long time.
  • A couple of months later the 780 comes out and almost matched titan performance. Titan owners feel a bit cheated, people who wanted a titan but didn't want to pay out for it buy a 780 and are happy.
  • A couple of months later there's a massive price drop on the 780, people who originally bought it feel cheated. 780ti is also announced and is faster then titan. Everyone who owns a 780 or titan feels a bit cheated that neither are the fastest card.
  • People buy 780ti with the knowledge that this is definitely nvidas top end card! Yes we're safe for a year.
  • Maxwell 1h 2014.....

Its been a strange year for NVidia
 
I really hope they don't repeat the 7 series tbh.

  • Titan release, its expensive but the guys that can afford it buy it with the knowledge that it will be the fastest NVidia card for a long time.
  • A couple of months later the 780 comes out and almost matched titan performance. Titan owners feel a bit cheated, people who wanted a titan but didn't want to pay out for it buy a 780 and are happy.
  • A couple of months later there's a massive price drop on the 780, people who originally bought it feel cheated. 780ti is also announced and is faster then titan. Everyone who owns a 780 or titan feels a bit cheated that neither are the fastest card.
  • People buy 780ti with the knowledge that this is definitely nvidas top end card! Yes we're safe for a year.
  • Maxwell 1h 2014.....

Its been a strange year for NVidia

Ah living in regret will just make you age faster. I'm happy with my 780's :cool:
 
I really hope they don't repeat the 7 series tbh.

  • Titan release, its expensive but the guys that can afford it buy it with the knowledge that it will be the fastest NVidia card for a long time.
  • A couple of months later the 780 comes out and almost matched titan performance. Titan owners feel a bit cheated, people who wanted a titan but didn't want to pay out for it buy a 780 and are happy.
  • A couple of months later there's a massive price drop on the 780, people who originally bought it feel cheated. 780ti is also announced and is faster then titan. Everyone who owns a 780 or titan feels a bit cheated that neither are the fastest card.
  • People buy 780ti with the knowledge that this is definitely nvidas top end card! Yes we're safe for a year.
  • Maxwell 1h 2014.....

Its been a strange year for NVidia

In fairness, I accept these things in the GPU world and anybody who doesn't, shouldn't buy from the off. It isn't like we need the top cards as soon as they are launched and they are a luxury and other cards can do just as well at a fraction of the cost and only FRAPS to tell the difference.
 
AMD forced nVidia's hand with the R9 290X mostly matching or outperforming Titan at a significantly lower price point.

nVidia were only able to command a premium price for the GTX780 while it was substantially quicker than the 7970 and as soon as the R9 290X came out they were forced to drop their price dramatically to make it an attractive proposition.

Then the 780Ti comes out which is purely to keep nVidia at the top of the pile and allow them to continue to charge a massive premium for the privilege.

Titan is superceded as a gamer's GPU but can still command a premium price because with its massive DP compute performance it's a bit more than just a big GPU with a ton of RAM.
 
In fairness, I accept these things in the GPU world and anybody who doesn't, shouldn't buy from the off. It isn't like we need the top cards as soon as they are launched and they are a luxury and other cards can do just as well at a fraction of the cost and only FRAPS to tell the difference.
Agreed.

Just because next gen cards that come out faster, it's not like it's gonna make the performance of the existing cards performance worse that when we first bought them. Sometimes I read people with comments of "I just bought the xxx top-end card...I hope the next gen card ain't too much faster...". Seriously...WHAT!? What kind of logic is that?

I think their mindsets are like "oh no, my xxx's resell value gonna drop to crap". To be honest, what they fail to grasp is that if the graphic card performance increase at a faster rate, it would mean that that card that upgrade to in two years time would be much faster. I honestly don't want to see the joke of a mere 10-15% performance increase (for the same price range cards), and have to wait 4 years before upgrading to something worth the move for the sake of resell value of cards dropping at slower rate.
 
need it released asap since every day feels like nvidia are late to the party !

Still considering the 290 catched up and just beat the 780 cards you just know when Nvidia do release there new cards oh my god will be the expression :)
 
R3X said:
need it released asap since every day feels like nvidia are late to the party !

Still considering the 290 catched up and just beat the 780 cards you just know when Nvidia do release there new cards oh my god will be the expression :)
At the £600+ price tag. :D
 
need it released asap since every day feels like nvidia are late to the party !

Still considering the 290 catched up and just beat the 780 cards you just know when Nvidia do release there new cards oh my god will be the expression :)

At the £600+ price tag. :D

Quite Nelly!

15-20% performance gain over Kepler. That's what I'm saying!
 
We can hope. I read somewhere that all Maxwell cards will have an integrated arm CPU. Very interesting if true but I'm not sure what purpose it will serve.

That was the original plan but I think because of set-backs it will be seen first on the Maxwell refresh (i.e. between Maxwell & Volta).

The purpose was to offload certain tasks normally undertaken by the system's CPU and perform them on the integrated 8 core ARM CPU, where they will get performance advantages because it should share the same RAM as the GPU so no need to shuffle data backwards and forwards between CPU/DRAM & GPU/VRAM.
 
All the analysts were saying 20nm doesn't start production until 2H 2014, so safe bet that it's 28nm mid-range parts under a new nomenclature.

Credit to Rroff for calling it. :D

If the analysts are using the US quarter/half convention, 2H 2014 isn't too far as Q2 2014 starts in January.
 
All the analysts were saying 20nm doesn't start production until 2H 2014, so safe bet that it's 28nm mid-range parts under a new nomenclature.

Credit to Rroff for calling it. :D

What I originally said and still stand by is that we will likely see a mixture of 20nm Maxwell and 28nm Kepler rebadged under the same line up.

There is no direct optical rescale up or down with 20nm<>28nm so I doubt they've spent time reworking the lithography for Maxwell on 28nm (20nm design kits were already available to nVidia).

The most likely scenario IMO based on some fact, rumour and past history is not that different from Kepler with the full fat version delayed (but on 14 or 16nm hybrid) and the "high end" part thats first released being the GTX680 all over again - basically a mid-range card compared to the full fat design but still 40-50% faster than the Titan depending on final clockspeeds. The rest of the lineup a mixture of mostly 28nm rebadges with the odd 20nm parts.

EDIT: Its why I've been holding out to try and make the most of the 470s but the noise levels when they are fully spun up finally made me buy a 780 :|
 
Ah living in regret will just make you age faster. I'm happy with my 780's :cool:

Wouldn't agree more :D

Might drop the prices of the 780 and try to get another one. That X79 platform asks for more POWERRRRRRR (even if not needed :D).
 
I was expecting new cards in June, March seems quite early especially for 20nm. Would be a nice surprise though, all for progress. Wish CPU's were this competitive, sort it out AMD :p
 
New architecture alone likely won't improve performance by much. AMD was making 350mm2 cores give or take, and produced a new core at around the 450mm2 mark, MOST of the performance came not from architecture improvements but increase in die size. Nvidia CAN'T make a core significantly bigger, basically at all, either at 28nm or 20nm. IE at 28nm they are at the limit, at 20nm at 550mm2 would represent a huge increase in potential performance, but the chance they will release a decently yielding 500mm2+ core as the first chip on 20nm, well, read up on 480gtx, and see when Titan appeared as to how well Nvidia's huge cores work on ever smaller processes early into their life cycle...

I also very very much doubt Nvidia or AMD can release a "mid range" part, 7970/680gtx successors, on 20nm at end up 40-50% ahead of 780/290x, is incredibly unlikely to happen. 30-40% ahead of 780/290x maybe, 60-80%(depends on exactly how chips line up, combinations of memory controller, how well the shrink works, which logic shrinks well and what doesn't as to where a chip ends up die size wise), will fall squarely in the ball park of equivalent sized new gen parts. IE AMD will only see a 60%+ performance improvement on the 290x by something over 400mm2, and for Nvidia, 60-80% more performance over 780ti will take something over 500mm2.

Likelyhood is, first Maxwells, 28nm small enough parts that it wouldn't actually get cheaper to do on 20nm due to increases costs vs saved die size, maybe a lower midrange part 650-660 style parts. 20nm/Q3 2014 earliest for 680gtx/7970 successor parts, and 16-14nm/q3 2015 earliest for 290x/gk110 successor.
 
Today TSMC have pretty much announced full production of 16nm in Q1 2015, they are doing risk production of 16nm today.

They've been doing risk production of 20nm parts for a while and that will go into full production q1 2014.

I really can't see a high power, high size part being wasted on 20nm. Much of what they learn making things on 20nm will translate to 16nm. So it's most likely they'll use low to midrange parts to learn 20nm, then implement whatever they've learnt for a huge part on 16nm.

I think 20nm will be very disappointing for AMD/Nvidia users, maybe 50-70% faster than a 7970/680gtx, but that will only equate to being 5-15% faster than a 780ti/290x. I doubt we'd see a 290x/780ti replacement before mid 2015. :(
 
^^ The performance is already here with 780 / 780ti / 290 / 290X tbh.

If they can get the power consumption down on those cards I would be happy with that tbh for 2014, these cards already have performance is spades...
 
Been looking around this morning and found this, which is a good read.

got around some maxwell plans from nvidia. quite interesting stuff. there will be two lines, maybe the second one aligns with the finfet stuff, don't know. anyway, that's what i gathered:

the smx structure changes slightly. nv did some optimization that they can use now the dp alu also for sp, it supports now all sp instructions and can be used in parallel. it means an smx looks now to have 256 alu. technically, that reduces maxwell's dp rate to 1:4, but in reality it just boosts the sp performance in comparison to kepler. nv found out how to gate of the unused parts of the dp alu to keep the power down when doing sp stuff.

but the real changes are in the cache area. that will boost the efficiency big time.
first off, the registers are doubled per smx. more threads using a lot of registers can now run in parallel and better hide the latencies. and the caches got increased as well. the L1 cache also used as shared memory is now 128kb (doubled) and can be split between cache and shared memory in steps of 32/96, 64/64, or 96/32. maxwell keeps the 16 tmus per smx.

the gpcs consist of usually 3 smx, but got changed quite a bit. there is still that geometry engine and stuff, but each gpc now includes 768kb of l2 cache, backing the r/w-L1 as well as the read only texture L1 in the smxs and also serve as instruction cache for the smx. all this gets topped off with a much larger l3 cache than in kepler. now to some numbers for the first line.

gm100:
8 gpc (8 triangles per clock), 24 smx, 384 tmus, 6144 alu, 8mb l3 (and there are also 8 l2s in the gpcs!), 64 rops, 512 bit interface, up to 8 gb @ 6+ ghz
target frequency for gf 930mhz, boost 1GHz
target frequency for tesla 850mhz, gives 2.61 dp tflops, double that of kepler, comes with 16gb

gm104:
5 gpc, 15 smx, 240 tmu, 3840 alu, 4mb l3, 40 rops, 320 bit interface (7 ghz), 2.5gb for cheap models, probably a lot of asymmetric 3gb or (symmetric again) 5gb models, target 1+ ghz, can do dp only with 1:16 rate

gm106:
3 gpc, 9 smx, 144 tmu, 2304 alu, 4mb l3, 24 rops, 192 bit interface, 7ghz, 3gb ram

gm108:
2 gpc, 4 smx, 64 tmu, 1024 alu, 2mb l3, 16 rops, 128bit interface, 2 gb ram

but really interesting gets the refresh, probably waiting for tsmc's finfets. then 64 bit arm cores developed by nv gets integrated on the same die. they can coherently access the common l3 cache. the big thing is that they will be used by the graphics driver to offload some heavy lifting from the system cpu. basically most part of the driver will be running on the gpu itself! nvidia expects this will give them at least the same speed up as amd will get from mantle, but without using a new api with straight dx11 or opengl code! and it will also help with the new cuda version for maxwell, where one can access both gpu as well as cpu cores seamlessly.

the specs are planned to stay almost the same for gm110/114/116, just the 110 gets full 8 ARM v8 cores and a doubled l3 (16mb!) compared to the gm100. the finfets may also allow a further speed boost. the 8 arm core version is actually called gm110soc, so maybe nv will start to market them as standalone processors for hpc. the consumer version is likely cut down to 4 arm cores, the same as gm114 will get (which also gets a doubled l3 to 8mb). the gm116 will only get 2 cpu cores on die, i have not seen that a gm118 got mentioned.

http://pastebin.com/jm93g3YG
 
^^ The performance is already here with 780 / 780ti / 290 / 290X tbh.

If they can get the power consumption down on those cards I would be happy with that tbh for 2014, these cards already have performance is spades...

What, plenty of people are using sli/xfire or more, 1080p 30fps isn't a standard, nor is 60fps. I prefer 120fps, low persistence mode and as high a res as possible.

HArdware comes first, software follows, we get faster gpu's software moves forward to use that hardware. There is ALWAYS a need for more hardware.

Your argument could have been used for any generations fastest card in history. Should we have stopped at a 9700 pro because I could game at 1600x1200 on it?


However your other point is somewhat right, more performance in less power is better, but ultimately if I'm using 300W or 150W for the same performance, it's the same performance and a minimal cost difference. If you gamed for 24 hours in a day that is 3600W extra over the day, or lets say 50-55p extra. In reality, 1-2 hours a day, maybe £10 more in a year of power.

It would mean more for miners than gamers :p , mining will likely be almost dead by then though.

I'm not saying similar performance at less power isn't good, it's just not all that interesting. After a lets say R10 290x(no idea where they are going with this, R9 390X?), you'd be made to buy a current gen card but, all most gamers really care about is ultimate performance of the new gen, I think the lack of a high end near launch will make 20nm pretty much the most boring new gen launch, maybe ever. AMD has beaten Nvidia to the punch for years and have also not done a super high end, so it was 4870-5870-6970(pretty boring though)-7970-290x. This is the first time they'll do an Nvidia with a big ass core then launch a midrange core(though hopefully AMD won't pretend it's their high end core and price it as such :p ).

This is likely the first time both companies will delay their highest performance card for a significant amount of time, and release new gen midrange first.
 
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