M&S have dropped a clanger

RDM · 23 Dec 2013 at 14:08

Gaygle said:
Once again, a large organisation has gone out of their way to give an answer to a problem that was never there and in the process, Muslims have gotten the blame. I'm willing to bet my right arm that there are thousands of Muslim M&S workers literally face palming and saying "FFS" because the company they work for has gone out of its way to prove they're not racist and in the process made it look like the Muslim workers wanted this change.

It was like when a council insisted on calling Christmas decorations "Winter decorations" or something in an apparent attempt not to offend Muslims/anyone. Little did they know that there was in fact NO ONE who was offended by this and many Muslims were asking why the hell the council have done this. Then the media got hold of it and made it look as though this is something Muslims have been campaigning for.

If I was a Muslim I'd be pretty ****ed that all these people keep doing stuff in an attempt not to offend but instead they end up dragging your religion through the mud as it inevitably gets picked up by the media.

I thought all this had been driven by a Muslim check out worker refusing to sell things rather than being driven by "PC gone mad HR"?

This article from the Guardian (to avoid any right wing bias..) seems to suggest that:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/dec/23/marks-and-spencer-muslim-alcohol

The issue arose after an unnamed customer at a London store told the Telegraph they were "taken aback" when an "extremely apologetic" Muslim checkout worker asked them to wait for another till to become available.

The customer told the newspaper: "I had one bottle of champagne, and the lady, who was wearing a headscarf, was very apologetic but said she could not serve me. She told me to wait until another member of staff was available. I was taken aback. I was a bit surprised. I've never come across that before."

Gaygle · 23 Dec 2013 at 14:14

Thompson_NCL said:
Evidently the worker did want the change, or else they'd have happily served the customer.

This has only been M&S policy for a short amount of time, right? Unless this lone worker has only just started, which I doubt, why was this never a problem before? The answer is because M&S have given Muslims a choice about it. It would have never been a problem if no one hadever mentioned it and in the extremely isolated incidents that did occur, could this not have been sorted out by store managers or local supervisors? Is it necessary for their to be a policy on this? Do they not trust their local managers to sort out problems like this fairly and expeditiously that they feel their must be a policy on it?

In short, the creation of this "policy" is the reason for every problem. Why can the higher ups just stop fiddling with everything? Are they that desperate to justify their job that they have to try and invent ridiculous policies?

V-Spec · 23 Dec 2013 at 14:15

I've never been refused, when trying to buy alcohol or even pork (lol) from anywhere - especially where I live now where there are lots of Muslims.

It can't be a very widespread thing - they'd be hell to play in general, if any amount of people were being turned away from buying what are, totally standard products.

Sounds a bit over-reported and exaggerated to me.

zoomee · 23 Dec 2013 at 14:19

RDM said:
I thought all this had been driven by a Muslim check out worker refusing to sell things rather than being driven by "PC gone mad HR"?

This article from the Guardian (to avoid any right wing bias..) seems to suggest that:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/dec/23/marks-and-spencer-muslim-alcohol

I do wonder if it would have been such a big deal if it was a jewish person who had refused to sell some pork - or meat and milk etc.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/1...ne-us-marks-and-spencer-tell-its-jewish-staff

Asked by the JC if this extended to Jewish workers who did not wish to sell pig products or seafood, a spokesman confirmed that it was the case.

Gaygle · 23 Dec 2013 at 14:21

RDM said:
I thought all this had been driven by a Muslim check out worker refusing to sell things rather than being driven by "PC gone mad HR"?

This article from the Guardian (to avoid any right wing bias..) seems to suggest that:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/dec/23/marks-and-spencer-muslim-alcohol

I was under the impression this was a policy they had introduced recently? Either way, regardless, I still can't believe there is this much debate over the actions of ONE Muslim worker? When did she become the representative for Muslims in the UK? Truth is, she isn't, but people are acting like her views are representative of all Muslims. How many Muslim workers serve alcohol everyday without any sort of issue and without even thinking anything of it.

It just hurts my brain that people can't figure out for themselves that these types of stories aren't even news worthy. A single, maybe even a handful of workers from X religion's actions are not reflective of the other X billion's views. Surely even the simplest minds in society can work that out?

Mr Badger · 23 Dec 2013 at 14:29

MrMoonX said:
There is no state religion

Are you sure about that?

The Church of England/Anglican Church is formally recognised by the state as the "established" church of the nation. The Queen is the head of state and head of the Church of England. Church of England Bishops also have seats in parliament. Without the UK becoming a full blown theocracy, how much more of a state religion could it be?

RDM · 23 Dec 2013 at 14:33

zoomee said:
I do wonder if it would have been such a big deal if it was a jewish person who had refused to sell some pork - or meat and milk etc.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/1...ne-us-marks-and-spencer-tell-its-jewish-staff

No idea, why don't you try and find a Jew checkout assistant that won't sell you pork and report it to the Telegraph to find out?

I would certainly not be too happy to be told to go to anther till or wait until another checkout assistant became available just because of the religious views of the checkout staff especially considering just how packed M&S was this morning!

RDM · 23 Dec 2013 at 14:36

Gaygle said:
I was under the impression this was a policy they had introduced recently? Either way, regardless, I still can't believe there is this much debate over the actions of ONE Muslim worker? When did she become the representative for Muslims in the UK? Truth is, she isn't, but people are acting like her views are representative of all Muslims. How many Muslim workers serve alcohol everyday without any sort of issue and without even thinking anything of it.

It just hurts my brain that people can't figure out for themselves that these types of stories aren't even news worthy. A single, maybe even a handful of workers from X religion's actions are not reflective of the other X billion's views. Surely even the simplest minds in society can work that out?

I thought the issue was that the views of one religious person could then impact the policies of a large company, regardless of how silly they were. The silly bint on the checkout should have just scanned the goods in the first place.

Usher · 23 Dec 2013 at 14:40

The Muslim world use the Higri callendar, the current year is AH 1435 which explains a lot as they are still in the 15th century which where such bizarre beliefs belong

mehuk · 23 Dec 2013 at 14:57

So I could get a job on a checkout - decide to join or invent a crazy religion that prevents me serving anything that has animal product in, or is liquid based, or is not edible, or is grown in the mud.... so that means I could sit at a checkout all day, serving bananas?

Brilliant.

Cosimo · 23 Dec 2013 at 15:12

RDM said:
I would certainly not be too happy to be told to go to anther till or wait until another checkout assistant became available just because of the religious views of the checkout staff especially considering just how packed M&S was this morning!

I bet that was just people coming in the hope that their pork dishes and booze would be rejected at the till so that they could complain to the DM.

bitslice · 23 Dec 2013 at 16:00

zoomee said:
Unfortunately he is - his hatred for muslims shows through and through on this forum in most 'muslim'-related threads.

Oh god you talk such a lot of sanctimonious BS!!! :rolleyes:

go jump on a stick you condescending womble.

How can I hate people I never see? :rolleyes:

Muslims are all just Lego people to me and I simply find your issues and rants over your sky pixie completely retarded, if ever there was a group that needed the Michael taken out of them it's you.

Making out people hate you is just an easy cop out in a debate "Oh I don't have to do anything, because this is all just racist hate". The reality is some people simply dislike your culture and to some degree your religion. You as a person are of no interest whatsoever, nobody hates you, please get over yourself :rolleyes:

But ignore me if you like, if there is one thing Muslims seem to hate it's that other people refuse to take their aggressive religion seriously

Who do you think is going to solve this issue? Not me, not the fascist liberals that suck up to you, not the government.

It is you

You as a community have to get off your bum and sort your backward religion and culture out, flinging insults at people like me isn't going to get you anywhere. Although I fully expect this nonesense to continue for years, muslims still acting like retards and the Telegraph/DM printing story after story about how weird you all are and how multiculturalism has failed because of you.

That M&S apology was nothing of the sort, their policy remains the same, they are just going to move anyone who has a problem into another role. Effectively pandering to the whims of the weird religion again.
Shame for the muslim girl though, she was just doing what M&S said she could do

bitslice · 23 Dec 2013 at 16:08

Tunney said:
There's plenty of negative stories in the press related to other regions - child abuse, opposition to abortion, opposition to contraception, opposition to equal marriage, opposition to women priests, opposition to adoption by gay couples, refusal to slaughter TB-infected cows, extremists protesting at funerals, etc., etc., etc. These stories might not irritate Telegraph readers so much but they're still negative stories.

Well if they don't irritate Telegraph or DM readers then they aren't likely to irritate anyone then are they? DM makes a living from pandering to a majority opinion.
Maybe it's annoying for you that English culture isn't as liberal as you hoped.

Energize · 23 Dec 2013 at 16:10

M&S food is terrible anyway, just another reason not to shop there I suppose.

Dis86 · 23 Dec 2013 at 16:10

Thompson_NCL said:
5% of the population identify as Muslim, yet 13% of prisoners identify as Muslim. Prison populations are not something you should be citing if you're trying to defend Islam.

Lol you might as well have just said DERP as I have the feeling your stats really won't be understood by him. Either that or there'll be some excuse (as already mentioned) such as economic deprivation or corrupt judicial process.

Elrein · 23 Dec 2013 at 16:11

Energize said:
M&S food is terrible anyway, just another reason not to shop there I suppose.

It's most likely all halal as well, just like cadburys which is why I buy neither.

bitslice · 23 Dec 2013 at 16:17

Gaygle said:
This has only been M&S policy for a short amount of time, right?

I believe the policy of concessions to religion on a case by case basis has been is place for a long time, it's held up as one of the better HR policies.
It's just the fact that a customer should never have been inconvienced by this that was the problem.

churchhawk · 23 Dec 2013 at 16:17

I'm not religious but i do find it strange its all good to plaster the halal sign everywhere but a Muslim wont hand over a bottle of wine even though its sealed!

Shops round here are run by Muslims and they have no problem selling alcohol and smoke to the local **** heads......I thought this was against their religion?

This religion thing is way out of hand!, funny to watch it all unfold though.

Tunney · 23 Dec 2013 at 16:23

bitslice said:
Well if they don't irritate Telegraph or DM readers then they aren't likely to irritate anyone then are they? DM makes a living from pandering to a majority opinion.

Ha! Have you read the Guardian lately? Full of stories designed to irritate liberals.

The Guardian is doing a great job of catching up with the DM's web traffic through this kind of journalism.

And why do you think that the DM panders to a majority opinion? The DM isn't read by 50%+ of the population and the political party that it supports hasn't won 50%+ of the votes in a general election since the 1930s.

chief barker · 23 Dec 2013 at 16:28

churchhawk said:
I'm not religious but i do find it strange its all good to plaster the halal sign everywhere but a Muslim wont hand over a bottle of wine even though its sealed!

Shops round here are run by Muslims and they have no problem selling alcohol and smoke to the local **** heads......I thought this was against their religion?

This religion thing is way out of hand!, funny to watch it all unfold though.

Which reminds me of the Lily Allen 'black twerking video' which was branded as racist.

Funny how the black women in the video didn't complain because THEY WERE BEING PAID.

Flash the cash and people suddenly become oblivious to their own values/beliefs.