People who hate automagics...

The ZF 8 speed box is quite a versatile piece of kit, and not suprising so many car makers use it (Jaguar, Land Rover, BMW, Audi), and fundamentally it's the same thing underneath. It can be a great, smooth wafter with unnoticeable gearchanges in a Range Rover, to a brutally fast gearchange in an F-Type.

The calibration of the ZF box is often down to each OEM, so you'll find the BMW feel very different to the Jaguar. I've driven cars with terrible versions of the same box, and I've driven the very best.

But small automatics and CVTs I really can't get on with, though I do 'get' the whole Toyota/Lexus style hybrid planetary gearbox, I wouldn't want one myself.
 
Is it just me or do these discussions always take the same path:

"autos are crap "
'no, they're the best thing ever'
"well this and that were crap"
'oh well you need to use a good one like the other'

In summary, autos are good as long as you have a good one with a good engine, much like everything else in the automotive world!
 
I've had two autos the first was on a c230 and the second on my slk320.

As long as you have enough grunt they are great and I will get an auto next when we change my wife's car. They are so much better in traffic and when I want to go it's much better at quick change than me.
 
Autoboxes are great and all, but personally I don't like them, as I prefer changing gears myself and it suites my driving style better, I can rev the nuts out of my motor!

...But I still consider autoboxes to be for lazy people who can't be arsed to change gears, and I have found that in real life experience too and thats the way society is heading towards, fat lazy people who want everything automated. (ooer controversial!)

Also just because top end luxury cars have autos dont mean they are somehow superior, you expect to have a lazybox in a luxury car as thats the whole point of it, changing gears in a big barge designed for comfort and luxury is just a no-no, the same way IMO having an auto in a performance car is a sin.

The only time I would consider getting an auto is when I'm 105 years old.
 
I never liked autos until I drove my bosses X5 with the 8 speed automatic and that thing was so smooth!

The only other auto experience was a Suzuki baleno full throttle along the causeway to the Holy Island....that wasn't as good.
 
lemonade said:
...But I still consider autoboxes to be for lazy people who can't be arsed to change gears, and I have found that in real life experience too and thats the way society is heading towards, fat lazy people who want everything automated. (ooer controversial!)

Also just because top end luxury cars have autos dont mean they are somehow superior, you expect to have a lazybox in a luxury car as thats the whole point of it, changing gears in a big barge designed for comfort and luxury is just a no-no, the same way IMO having an auto in a performance car is a sin.
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Automatics are for people who don't want to change gear, of course - that's the whole point! However, if you were to spend dozens of hours each week sitting in stop start traffic on a motorway, you too would soon not want to change gear ;)

The reality is that with a powerful engine an automatic transmission is a bit of a no-brainer unless you specifically want to 'enjoy' your car, in which case it should probably be a pretty sporty car. Modern automatic transmissions mean you can concentrate on other things rather than constantly flicking your left leg back and forth to engage a different gear. You can have a far more relaxing and pleasant drive. You can focus on the road more. You can give your passengers a smoother drive, thanks to the silky starts and the nice 'absorption' between engine and wheels that an automatic provides. They are infinitely nicer to drive around town, and you are able to keep a pretty good pace without having to endlessly dance on the pedals. It's far less engaging, but that's effectively the only compromise nowadays, and it's one that the majority of people are more than happy to take for their everyday transport.

Luxury cars tend not to have automatics because they should be 'lazy', but because the increased cost over a manual is less evident with a higher sticker price, and most people who buy luxury cars prefer them. Cars also get harder to drive in manual form as the power levels go up - heavier clutches, the need to be very good with the throttle to get a smooth shift etc. This is why something reasonably sporty like a Jaguar F-Type has been introduced only with an automatic transmission. Who would want a manual Ranger Rover, or S-Class etc.?
 
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Even some old autos are ace. Ones like the three-speed BW 35 and 65, found in myriad Triumphs and Rovers. Usually nestled behind engines with a decent amount of torque, or in light cars. Very smooth, very refined, resulting in pleasingly relaxed conveyances.

The four speed in my XJ left it humming along a little too eagerly at the top end, but the box itself was fantastic. A fifth would have been nice. That or a taller rear end ratio. The four speed in the Granada and Jeep were superb as well. Silky smooth.
 
Lashout_UK said:
Even some old autos are ace. Ones like the three-speed BW 35 and 65, found in myriad Triumphs and Rovers. Usually nestled behind engines with a decent amount of torque, or in light cars. Very smooth, very refined, resulting in pleasingly relaxed conveyances.

The four speed in my XJ left it humming along a little too eagerly at the top end, but the box itself was fantastic. A fifth would have been nice. That or a taller rear end ratio. The four speed in the Granada and Jeep were superb as well. Silky smooth.
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I think old school automatics are the smoothest and silkiest of them all! Absence of a torque converter lock-up, or one that engages only at high speed, means you can have pleasant, continuous 2000 RPM acceleration from, say, 0 to 50 MPH. It's like the accelerator pedal only tells the engine to tell the gearbox to do something via carrier pigeon - it really suits big cruiser cars.

The only areas where the older ones are usually lacking are in the mecha/electronics choosing the gear (less of a problem when you only had 3 or 4, but a bad 5 speed can be a mess...), in shift speed, and in the lack of early converter lock up giving a very indirect/power-wasting drive that some people hate.

It took me some time to like the ZF 6HP in the 535d after the 5HP in my 530i, as the 5HP was a real slushbucket - and I liked it - until about 50 MPH when the converter would lock. The 535d almost seemed broken on my early drives of it, as it will lock up almost immediately if it's not a cold day, so the revs are going up and down like a manual.
 
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My disco box is a bit retarded when in Cruise control and you get to any sort of incline.
Up down, up down, up down.
Other than that, it's so nice not having to faff with a gearstick, especially offroad!
 
Fuzz said:
My disco box is a bit retarded when in Cruise control and you get to any sort of incline.
Up down, up down, up down.
Other than that, it's so nice not having to faff with a gearstick, especially offroad!
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The ZF5/6HP in the 5 Series does this, it's so annoying. I find myself putting it in manual mode on dual carriageways just to keep it in top gear.
 
right, im posting this as someone who doesnt have a clue about cars, engines or gear boxes, so bear with me.

my dad has an Audi A6 not sure of the year, but its quite old probably 7 years or so.

its automatic.

now, ive never driven an auto other than 4wd jobbies, but his has MASSIVE lag when he comes to pull off. then, it gets a massive burst of power all in one go.

sometimes the lights can go green, and he will have been trying to go for a good few seconds before anything happens....

He also has a auto shogun though, which has no problems, so... is it just the audi, or is there a problem, if so what :D ?

hes looking to sell it (he only bought it last year) and buy something else, he preferably wants a manual, but i reckon if he gets the audi sorted, he will be fine, he loves it on the motorways for example...
 
Anything luxo barge'esque made in the last 10 years with have a pretty impressive auto, the VAG group DSG is also a decent gearbox. But I dont think japs have started to do decent boxes, the current Accord and CRV have particularly retarded boxes, same for Toyota's i've driven.

I still enjoy a manual though, its just that feel factor, and not mention the control it gives.But thats prob more down to familiarity of a manual.
 
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