they are and they were... just because the verdict doesn't fit with your world view doesn't mean they weren't
Lawful killing of Mark Duggan
- Thread starter thedoc46
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they are and they were... just because the verdict doesn't fit with your world view doesn't mean they weren't
I wouldn't say he deserved it per say but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it... he had the choice to avoid being shot when he was shot... grabbing a gun and leaping out of a cab with it when stopped by armed police is very very dumb...
overall he was allegedly involved in a couple of murders previously and he'd hardly bought this gun to go shooting tin cans etc.. the world is probably a better place with him not in it
Man of Honour
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He is dead; if he had not have been keeping the company he did, handling and probably more than once before using the weapons, taking part in the the criminal activities, and generally being a total miscreant he would not be.
Assumed threat was lethal; proportionate force was used, he would only have himself to blame if he were here now.
Assumed threat was lethal; proportionate force was used, he would only have himself to blame if he were here now.
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police have to be held to a higher level of esteem as they operate on the basis of virtue. if they are not virtuous they are thugs in their own right.
Littlejohn is a very good troll - am rather impressed:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...angster-not-Nelson-Mandela.html#ixzz2q0hc5sPD
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...angster-not-Nelson-Mandela.html#ixzz2q0hc5sPD
OK, there's a few things you lot should know about me. My ex, worked in Scotland Yard. I went to all the parties, christmas bashes etc with the Met. My brother in law is in the Met. My sister in law is a detective.
Not saying all Police are bad, but do not be naive to the fact that there are quite a few bad apples in there. Probably more so than in your typical other industry. The one that pulled the trigger, was a bad one. He acted irresponsibly and absolutely trigger happy, nearly killing his team mate and endangering the lives of others. Not to mention wrongly killing Duggan. But what's worse is how the Met all banded together, made stories up, went about tarnishing the name of Duggan, far far worse than the small time crook that he was.
If anyone of us, were to pull the same thing off, as in shoot someone who didn't actually have a gun on them, we would be criminally accountable. But V53 gets off scott free, thanks to some clever PR.
If Duggan worked in the local parish, would the outcome of been any different? Cops get a tip that man may possibly have a gun. Chase down, and really fire without real justification.. THEN cover it all up, make lies and go about it in a way that makes your stomach churn, all to look out for themselves.
Duggan didn't start the riots, he was laying in a morgue dead. He leaves four children and a family.. Do you really think a hardened criminal would work as a clothes retailer? Big time drug lord that he is?
Not saying all Police are bad, but do not be naive to the fact that there are quite a few bad apples in there. Probably more so than in your typical other industry. The one that pulled the trigger, was a bad one. He acted irresponsibly and absolutely trigger happy, nearly killing his team mate and endangering the lives of others. Not to mention wrongly killing Duggan. But what's worse is how the Met all banded together, made stories up, went about tarnishing the name of Duggan, far far worse than the small time crook that he was.
If anyone of us, were to pull the same thing off, as in shoot someone who didn't actually have a gun on them, we would be criminally accountable. But V53 gets off scott free, thanks to some clever PR.
If Duggan worked in the local parish, would the outcome of been any different? Cops get a tip that man may possibly have a gun. Chase down, and really fire without real justification.. THEN cover it all up, make lies and go about it in a way that makes your stomach churn, all to look out for themselves.
Duggan didn't start the riots, he was laying in a morgue dead. He leaves four children and a family.. Do you really think a hardened criminal would work as a clothes retailer? Big time drug lord that he is?
At the end of the day, the company that you keep does not equal who you are. Sure, your best pal may be a murderer. That doesn't and shouldn't mean that you are also a murderer. A court of law looks at the facts, not the circumstantial evidence.
Soundood, can you please justify why you posted that?
Andy, come on. This is a discussion forum. Reply to his points in a proper manner rather than saying he ought to be banned. You're better than that.
Amazingly, we're actually allowed to disagree with the moderators.
OK, there's a few things that you should know about me. My grandfather is a Detective Chief Inspector in T Division. He authorised the deployment of armed officers on numerous occasions.
Those officers that he deployed made life and death decisions based on the intelligence and facts that they had.
Those officers were following orders.
Those officers were incredibly highly trained.
Those officers were exonerated by a court of their peers and therefore absolutely innocent.
There is nothing more to be said about the officers in question actions.
This (my grandfathers job) could all be ****e, it possibly is.
My point? We live in a democracy and we accept that we have a judicial system which provides the opportunity for a fair trial. This has happened. Accept it. The ruling has become. If you don't accept it, then fine. Campaign for a change in judicial system. Do not campaign for a retrial or whatever you're looking for just because it doesn't suit your political point.
They are, and in this case they evidently were. As is always the case with these situations though, people are unable to let their bias go and have a reasonable discussion about it and instead it degenerates into what we see in this thread.
There wasn't even a reasonable attempt in the OP to start a decent discussion about it, you just jumped straight to "He was executed".
For the people who have, off the back of one case (or even a handful of cases), decided that we have trigger-happy police officers who just can't wait to shoot you, you may want to look into the statistics on how many operations firearms officers conduct in the UK each year, how many result in a firearm being discharged and further still, how many people actually die as a result.
Feel free to go off and do that and come back with your tail between your legs when you actually have some knowledge about it.
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Here's some more information on what sort of training AFOs have to undertake before they are put in these sorts of situations. It's also worth noting that this is just the first phase as the officers involved in the Duggan shooting would have had much more due to being Specialist Firearms Officers.
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If you live by the gun, you should be prepared to die by the gun.
That is all
That is all
The problem is that the police will lie when they do kill someone in questionable circumstances. The officers helping Ian Tomlinson after he collapsed were pelted with missiles, de Menezes jumped the ticket barrier, Duggan returned fire, Diarmuid O'Neill was armed, Harry Stanley took a "boxer's stance" and gripped his lethal piano leg with both hands. The lies always follow, but from reading some of the posts in this thread you'd think that only an insane or disgruntled individual would have reason to doubt the police.
Soldato
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You mean if all the variables were totally different?
If I were in a situation where I had a bunch of armed police with weapons trained on me, you know what I would do? I would stay very ****ing still and listen carefully to their instructions. Anything other than that and you risk getting shot. It's that simple.
Well that's really crap. My tax money goes on this kind of training!
I've seen better people at a paint ball fight. They know no one is going to shoot them and it's all acting so what's the point?
A sniper could have killed the lot then go off and had fish and chips. Another bunch of larpers.
This why I think UK police that want to handle guns should be trained up in parts of the USA like Florida\Washington DC
there they will face armed and very dangerous people every hour of every day not just now and then like they do here.
Or get the X-army guys that have been on the front line doing it.