Aquarium set up ideas

Footyslayer said:
I have a marine tank and have kept coldwater and tropical.

You are going to struggle to keep and maintain anything marine in such a small tank. My first marine tank was 110l and it was such hard work, with marine the water specs are easier to maintain with a bigger tank, even then it can be a hassle and very expensive.

For a proper marine setup you are looking at well over £1k for decent lights, pumps live rock, live sand and various other stuff. Also you want a tank with a sump for Marine otherwise it is a weekly battle for water specs.

My advise, go tropical. But you are still limited to the amount of fish you can have in a 50l.
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1k? :o I'm sure my tank/lights set me back far more than that.. and its not even that big :p
 
rah^ said:
1k? :o I'm sure my tank/lights set me back far more than that.. and its not even that big :p
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Tell me about it, my lights were £900 alone!

I was more talking if he went down the 2nd hand route and started off with inferior kit. I did that and spent about 1.5k for a decent tank set up and ended up replacing most the bits for better things :rolleyes:

I honestly think a 100l tank as a starter would be good. 30l - 50l wow. Any chance of a pic of the tank?
 
Many apologies guys, measured the tank up and it's actually 70L! Still wouldn't say it's the biggest tank but hey better than 50L right?!

I've seen a few of you writing about the guppies, plecs, red tail sharks - would all these go well with neons? Tbh the species I am keen on adding are neons, guppies, angels maybe the shark and some algae eaters.
 
ANDARIAL said:
OP sounds like you are new to fishkeeping?
Start with tropical ,marine will be too much to start off with(no offence intended)
Dad did the whole marine thing a few years ago.Started out looking good,but cost wise:eek:(Many thousands)
Need quite large tanks,slat,lighting,heating,filtration
VERY EXPENSIVE to do and maintain properly and livestock is a lot more than tropical.you nearly cry when a prize £50 fish is found next morning on the floor(happened twice)
You can get marine starter kits but they are a bit meh:)
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No offence taken :)
I have done fish keeping before but as stated in my OP I was younger and lacked the patience for research. Also they were much simpler fish like goldfish. Every bit of advice is taken as I am learning and I'm defo a newbie :)
 
manisinghb said:
Many apologies guys, measured the tank up and it's actually 70L! Still wouldn't say it's the biggest tank but hey better than 50L right?!

I've seen a few of you writing about the guppies, plecs, red tail sharks - would all these go well with neons? Tbh the species I am keen on adding are neons, guppies, angels maybe the shark and some algae eaters.
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What are the tank's approximate dimensions?

Tank volume is a poor guide to what fish species are suitable for a tank for life. Of my seven tanks, I have a 130l (~62x39x55cm) and a 140l (~120x30x37cm), the choice of fish and the total stocking is much bigger for the latter.

Angelfish are not small fish as adults; they need at least 45cm of actual water depth (excluding substrate) to prevent stunting; they eat Neon Tetras in the wild.

Red Tail Black Sharks reach 15cm SL (excluding tail fin); as they mature they get increasingly aggressive with anything of similar shape/colour and other bottom dwellers; 120cm long tank is absolute minimum size.

How hard is your planned tank water (gH and kH)? The UK south for instance has moderately hard water, far from suitable for Neon Tetras that originate from soft water. Choose fish that match the stats of your water.
 
ThaReaperGuy said:
We grabbed 2 syamese fighters, 2 angel fish, around 15 neons, 3 'sucker' fish (Are they actually named that I can't remember, they cleaned the place though), 2 previous gold fish & a couple frogs.
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Wow, were all these together? If so, with all due respect, did you find your fish stock diminish quickly?

If not you’re very lucky as angel fish don’t tend to like neons, sometimes each other. Also if the Siamese fighers (bettas) were males then almost always do they attack each other (you can get away with 1x male and 1x female, or 2x females, but 2x males is a bad idea). Siamese fighters make terrible community tank mates, especially the typical veil tale variety local fish stores stock. Plakats are the only betas I would say could make it long-term in a community tank due to minimal finage, but I wouldn’t advise on it.


To the op, fish keeping is a great hobby but can be as involved as the world of computers if you want it to be!

70ltr tank – I would stick to tropical. You’re talking four figures for marine and probably ~£100 for tropical.

Also, the typical rule of thumb is 1” of fish (fully grown) per UK gallon of water.

Some advice I’d give anyone looking to start in the hobby:

1) Take a look at some fish related forums (I’m on FishForums.net mainly) and have a good read on there as there are dozens of people that have asked the same questions as you with some very good answers (not saying you wouldn’t get good answers here).

2) Getting things right from the start will pay dividends in the long run. What do you want out of the tank? Do you want live plants? If so then you may want to choose fish that won’t devour them. Do you want a specific type of fish, e.g. figure 8 puffer then that’s a brackish fish and not a community fish so you may really want one of those but as you haven’t planned ahead then you can’t.

Cycling the tank - there is no harm in cycling the tank once you have the filter and substrate. This way, after a couple of weeks you can go in and buy fish rather than having to wait longer, having not started cycling the tank.

You may read that you can cycle a tank with fish in it – I really advise against this as it stresses the fish out and often they die.

If you’re in a big hurry to get going then borrow some seeded filter media from a friend (in a bag of their tank water) and put that in yours – you’ll find the tank can cycle in a matter of a few days, but that’s depending how good the tank you’re taking the media from actually is.

You can get around water quality issues with various lotions and potions the fish stores will try and sell you, some are good but if your local store sells reverse osmosis (RO) water then that can really get you off to a good start, plus using 20% RO water per water change will help keep things ticking over nicely. RO is extremely useful if you are treating diseases in the tank.

3) The type of substrate (gravel, sand etc) you use will determine the types of fish you would be best to keep. My advice on sand in a tropical tank... don’t. I bought lovely white silica sand for a tank, looked stunning, cost a fortune, and looked cr@p about a day after due to the poo and bits of plant. Sand is also terrible for certain types of fish so my advice again is steer clear.

I personally have gone for fine lava gravel (can’t remember what it’s called) but it’s damn expensive but is great for planted tanks, not so for specific fish – see point 4. Fine pea gravel is perfect as well.

Don't be tempted to get sand from the beach or somewhere else if you do choose to go down that route - sand will contain salt (and other things in some instances) which unless you're going for a brackish (partial salted) tank then it will kill the fish. Inert sand such as silica sand (best bet) or play sand (not always 100% inert) is fine.

Don't be tempted with coloured gravel - it's crap and will colour your water.

4) Fish such as corydoras (corys), clown loach, catfish and plecos are very popular but these are all bottom dwellers. It won’t be very interesting if you only have bottom dwellers so perhaps research fish that are also mid to upper range which will give you something to look at.

On the subject of corydoras (cory’s) and clown loach – these are typically very popular due to their colours/look but remember clown loach can get big and both of these types of fish tend to do better in small groups of 3+.

Corys, clown loaches and certain plecos (e.g. any bristlenose pleco) need fine substrate to dig about in, anything coarse or large will wear down their barbles (or beards as my daughter calls them) and isn’t very pleasant for them. Just to keep that in mind.

5) Filteration is impotant. If you can, get yourself an external filter – they are easier to clean and I’ve always justified the expense as it allows me more inches of fish per gallon of extra water the canister holds!

Little tip – fish always look hungry but you don’t need to feed them more than every other day. I’ve had fish for 20 years and never fed them every day. It pollutes the water quicker (either through uneaten food rotting, or more faeces rotting at the bottom of the tank).

I tend to go by the rule of however much food the top feeders eat in 1 minute is enough. Don’t forget if you have corys or bottom feeders, tablets or a small amount of brine shrimp (something that will sink) is needed.

6) Trust your research and advice of enthusiasts over fish store advice – not to tar everyone with the same brush as there are some very experienced owners/workers in these places, but they are few and far between in my experience and money matters more in a lot of these places, than the welfare of the fish.

Certain fish have a bigger appeal and as they sell well you are unlikely to be told that they don’t make good community tank-mates. For example:
- Red tail sharks can be a right pain in the neck and bully other fish.
- Tiger barbs likewise, these can be bullies (especially with other tetras such as neons)
- Frogs, lobsters or similar... not really good for a community tank
- Mixing tetra varieties can be a bit hit and miss as well.
- Angelfish don't make good community tank mates IMO - sometimes they can attack each other as well
- Siamese fighers (or betas), if you want one, get a small little tank (they will go for guppies usually and sometimes swordtails)
- Oddballs – there are some weired fish out there but do your research as I’ve made many mistakes by randomly buying and often times ending up attacking or being attacked.

Of course there are examples of people that have had one of these fish in a community setting and have had no problems – that’s more luck than anything else. I'm just giving my advice from my experience and research.

Good community fish are neons, guppies, danios (zebra etc), swordtails, most gouramis, catfish (do your research on these), certain plecos (some get HUGE), mollies, platies, rasboras to name a few.

I believe the forum mentioned at the start have some beginners guides that are excellent and covers points I've raised much better than I've stated. As with any hobby, there is a learning curve so hopefully if this stuff is all new to you I haven't put you off as it is a really nice hobby to get into.

Good advice above from UTmaniac
 
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boxman2000 said:
To the op, fish keeping is a great hobby but can be as involved as the world of computers if you want it to be!

70ltr tank – I would stick to tropical. You’re talking four figures for marine and probably ~£100....

...I've raised much better than I've stated. As with any hobby, there is a learning curve so hopefully if this stuff is all new to you I haven't put you off as it is a really nice hobby to get into.

Good advice above from UTmaniac
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Wow...what a post! :)

You answered a couple questions I had lined up in there, and then some!

I have most definitely decided to stick to tropical fish primarily for the cost versus marine and of course my experience level.

My next question was actually going to be upon substrate. I'm reading different things about gravel and sand but generally reading better things about sand. What's the general consensus here about which is easiest and the most effective colour?

In terms of my fish collection, I think I've decided upon Neon Tetras (6), Siamese (1 male), Zebra/Leopard Danio (2 of each) , Otocinclus (3), and Platy (4)
 
manisinghb said:
Wow...what a post! :)

You answered a couple questions I had lined up in there, and then some!

I have most definitely decided to stick to tropical fish primarily for the cost versus marine and of course my experience level.

My next question was actually going to be upon substrate. I'm reading different things about gravel and sand but generally reading better things about sand. What's the general consensus here about which is easiest and the most effective colour?

In terms of my fish collection, I think I've decided upon Neon Tetras (6), Siamese (1 male), Zebra/Leopard Danio (2 of each) , Otocinclus (3), and Platy (4)
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Zebra and Leopard Danios are hyperactive, my 7 Zebras make full use of a 120cm long tank. They are NOT tropical either and should be kept at 18-20C for most of the year.

Platties tend to fiesty when kept in small numbers, especially in squat tanks, it is far better to have 10+ in a 120cm or longer tank. In a 90cm tank, which I doubt your 70l is, they can just about work. They would more than likely nip the long fins of a Siamese Fighter.

All Otocinclus species are social and so should be kept in 6+ groups of their own species kind, ideally 10+ in a low-end tropical setup (~21-24C).

Siamese Fighters are mid to high end tropical fish that need ~24C as a minimum. Males will often consider other colourful fish as other enemy males, which they would normally fight to the death.

A 70l tank, regardless of its dimensions that you have yet to state, cannot responsibly hold many fish. Find a suitable "must have" species that matches your water stats plus the tank dimensions, then find other species that are compatible in terms of temp; aggression; water flow etc.
 
UTmaniac said:
Zebra and Leopard Danios are hyperactive, my 7 Zebras make full use of a 120cm long tank. They are NOT tropical either and should be kept at 18-20C for most of the year.

Platties tend to fiesty when kept in small numbers, especially in squat tanks, it is far better to have 10+ in a 120cm or longer tank. In a 90cm tank, which I doubt your 70l is, they can just about work. They would more than likely nip the long fins of a Siamese Fighter.

All Otocinclus species are social and so should be kept in 6+ groups of their own species kind, ideally 10+ in a low-end tropical setup (~21-24C).

Siamese Fighters are mid to high end tropical fish that need ~24C as a minimum. Males will often consider other colourful fish as other enemy males, which they would normally fight to the death.

A 70l tank, regardless of its dimensions that you have yet to state, cannot responsibly hold many fish. Find a suitable "must have" species that matches your water stats plus the tank dimensions, then find other species that are compatible in terms of temp; aggression; water flow etc.
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Forgot to insert dimensions:
Depth = 30cm
Length = 60cm
Height = 40cm
 
manisinghb said:
Wow...what a post! :)

You answered a couple questions I had lined up in there, and then some!

I have most definitely decided to stick to tropical fish primarily for the cost versus marine and of course my experience level.

My next question was actually going to be upon substrate. I'm reading different things about gravel and sand but generally reading better things about sand. What's the general consensus here about which is easiest and the most effective colour?

In terms of my fish collection, I think I've decided upon Neon Tetras (6), Siamese (1 male), Zebra/Leopard Danio (2 of each) , Otocinclus (3), and Platy (4)
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I wouldn't use sand, i will guarantee you will scratch the glass, and sand holds no nutrients.

Something like this is what you want.

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/col...4.html?zenid=9fa0179d8d81b0c754c92418135275b7


This is the thread you really need to use mate.


http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18100845
 
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233 said:
plecs are a great addition to any tank,

although vegetarian my backside, our plec used to eat other fish quite happily. ended up with just him and a couple of large angels eventually.
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Yeah, I noticed they changed their appetite from the whats it's name? algae discs? to the bloodworm.
 
My plec loves a piece of cucumber every now and then (weighed down with a plant weight). They absolutely will go for any dead fish at the bottom of the tank. Also you’re unlikely to find any remains of a plec when they die as the way they’re made up appears to be little bone (I’ve had several just disappear over the years with no trace).

As far as substrate I really honestly would suggest you keep away from sand - it's no good for filters, I personally don't think it's great for plecos and certain catfish and it's just an absolute ass to clean (you end up losing so much from the siphoning process). At the end of the day it isn't me cleaning it so... black would be my colour of choice if you were set on it.

I'm trying to remember the make of the substrate I use, although if you're likely to have any fish with barbles in the future I'd advise against it. I'll get back to you on that as it is truly brilliant stuff but damn hard to find in the UK. Basically it’s crushed lava and is fantastic for plants – when I get time I’m looking to get into Co2 (have a look at this, absolutely stunning setup IMO!)

Another reason why I don't use sand is that it can produce poisonous (to the fish) gas as the sand often gets tightly compacted together, enough that water cannot circulate through it, so the sand becomes a low oxygen environment. Organic matter (fish waste, rotting food, decaying plant matter, dead fish) is trapped in the sand and broken down by anaerobic bacteria, which as all waste products, produce some toxic substances, especially hydrogen sulphide. It can happen in smaller sized gravel but is far more common in sand substrate. These pockets of poison gas will ultimately escape from substrate, in the cases where large enough amounts of the gas escape, fish can be poisoned and the tank will smell badly (rotting eggs or raw sewage smell!)

The main way around this is to have only a thin layer of sand (no more than 2” deep) and stirring sand every few days. Sand isn’t always good for planted tanks, especially with this thin layer. Also with a thin layer of sand, larger fish may disturb it.

Fish choices, again UTmaniac's advice is exactly what I would say. I have a good level of experience with bettas (Siamese fighters) and as I said in my previous post, if you are set on having one in a community tank then the plakat fin variety of betta is the one to go for - they are known to go for colourful fish, absolutely, especially guppies!

I used to buy all my bettas from a guy called Kevin Piper (KG Bettas) but don't appear to be able to find him anymore - there are some good breeders around, don't think you have to buy only what your local fish store supply. Crown tail would be my next choice as their finnage isn't always too big but nice to see all the same - fish stores almost always supply veil tails which (IMO) aren't the nicest type available! Google half moon betta or crown tail (my favourite).

Again, if you're set on getting a betta then my advice would be establish your tank first, get the fish you're happy with, are compatible and that get on, then think about introducing a betta. It is better to have one in a tank on their own though, especially males. It is unlikely they will make bubble nests in a community tank which is a shame as it really is lovely to see and is a sign they are happy and in a good environment.
 
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Thanks boxman2000 - some sound advice there! I do love the tank setup you attached, would you happen to know the name of some of the plants in the background there??

I've taken the plunge and decided to get the Colombo black gravel as advised earlier by Spook187

I've already got an air pump that came with my Juwel tank. I was now thinking filteration. I'm going to research into this and use what I used before (sponge) but also wanted to use an actual mechanical filter. Would these 2 go together and I'm looking at the 600l/h all ponds solution filter internal. Any input??
 
Could you guys clear something for me? I have a pump that came with the tank. It is a Pump 400. I assume this pump is to accompany the filter media (sponges) in the filter house which means it isn't a air stone right? And if I wanted to get an additional filter will it be good to use alongside this pump/sponge set up?

Also, I want to take the plastic filter housing out and reposition it, what can I use to glue it back into the aquarium?
 
manisinghb said:
Could you guys clear something for me? I have a pump that came with the tank. It is a Pump 400. I assume this pump is to accompany the filter media (sponges) in the filter house which means it isn't a air stone right? And if I wanted to get an additional filter will it be good to use alongside this pump/sponge set up?

Also, I want to take the plastic filter housing out and reposition it, what can I use to glue it back into the aquarium?
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Is your filter sponges in a seperate section above the tank?

You can also use an internal filter, I do and it is fine!
 
Footyslayer said:
Is your filter sponges in a seperate section above the tank?

You can also use an internal filter, I do and it is fine!
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The filter sponges are submersed in the water, in the same housing as where the pump is. There is a little divider between in the housing which seperates the pump and the sponges. Something like this

http://www.juwel-aquarium.co.uk/Products/More/Filtration/Filtersystems/Filter-Bioflow-3-0-Bioflow-3-0.html

I think I may add another small filter. This pump circulates 400l/h, I may add on a filter which circulates another 400l/h...
 
PS - what if I wanted to get rid of the sponges and pump that came with the tank (purely to get rid of the housing and use that space), and just use an internal filter? will this be safe and/or effective as the sponges method?
 
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