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AMD True Audio

You can't please everyone, you get given new tech as a part of your purchase and its not good enough to some, there are always those who take and then still want more, there is always someone who is never satisfied, its a circular argument.

Agreed.
Different people have different opinions. Don't mean either of them is wrong (or I guess right either). Just preference. If we all agreed on everything then this forum would be a very different place.
In this instance, I've no interest in True Audio DSP and would rather have not been charged for it.
I'll just avoid any games that use it or hope that I can disable it.
 
Agreed.
Different people have different opinions. Don't mean either of them is wrong (or I guess right either). Just preference. If we all agreed on everything then this forum would be a very different place.
In this instance, I've no interest in True Audio DSP and would rather have not been charged for it.
I'll just avoid any games that use it or hope that I can disable it.

You haven't even tested it, why the pre-judgemental negativity over this?
 
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Basically this is just a rip off of Creative EAX that was stopped when Vista was launched thanks to MS making Vista not support it.

EAX was amazing back in the day, CoD 2 with EAX using headphones, you could hear where every enemy was in MP giving you a massive advantage. Even footsteps upstairs you could pin point their exact location for the perfect grenade kill. EAX was the main reason people bought Creative cards and suffered their horrible drivers.

Shame one of the sound card companies didn't launch this so everyone had the option to use it. I will miss out thanks to the fact I enjoy PhysX effects in my games :(
 
Agreed.
Different people have different opinions. Don't mean either of them is wrong (or I guess right either). Just preference. If we all agreed on everything then this forum would be a very different place.
In this instance, I've no interest in True Audio DSP and would rather have not been charged for it.
I'll just avoid any games that use it or hope that I can disable it.

How can you turn it away without even testing it? You can still use your sound card with it. You loose nothing by trying it out.
 
You haven't even tested it, why the pre-judgemental negativity over this?

How can you turn it away without even testing it? You can still use your sound card with it. You loose nothing by trying it out.

You guys haven't used it either (as far as I'm aware), but you're coming down on the positive side. As said before we're all different and have different opinions.
I've watched the same videos I'm guessing you have and it didn't offer any benefit that I could notice. So it just seems like another process that has to be run and that can go wrong with no benefit.
 
You guys haven't used it either (as far as I'm aware), but you're coming down on the positive side. As said before we're all different and have different opinions.
I've watched the same videos I'm guessing you have and it didn't offer any benefit that I could notice. So it just seems like another process that has to be run and that can go wrong with no benefit.

Your being overly pessimistic, seemingly even searching for reasons to hate it and then reason the unreasonable. all we are saying is you should try it before you knock it.
 
does True Audio take up any graphics processing power? Does it mean a higher power draw from the card than 'normal'? Does it produce more heat?

Valid points highlighted there, I suppose we will have an indication when Thief lands, although I imagine Thief isn't(shouldn't be) demanding at all, so I don't know if it will be a true indication of performance.


Does annoy me a bit that I paid money for this feature that I don't even need or even want.

I fail to see the negative on a feature that is likely to improve gfx performance:

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^
That's what should happen when you eliminate the audio cpu overhead and offload the audio processing to dedicated hardware while at the same time massively increasing audio fidelity.

Add to the fact AMD effectively reduced comparable gpu pricing with undercutting the slower 780 while directly forcing Nvidia's hand in reducing pricing, I fail to see the problem/fuss in being charged for a feature you don't want.

You don't need headphones for audio DSP btw, set up your speakers properly and you will be impressed(if the audio coder does his job).

The vids can't give a true indication as there is zero action/visual cues, maybe try it first before all the negativity-you may already be a lost cause to TA by the sound of your negativity though.:p

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/x_fi_fatality_fps_soundblaster_review,15.html

Read what this chap thought of hardware audio on the XFi-superb back in the day on STALKER/BF2.

I'm so excited for TA, if it's even half as good as the XFi, we are in for a treat.:D
 
Yeah, and we all know you wouldn't do something like that would you? I seem to recall someone with a name like yours picking up on John Carmack saying "Could" instead of "Couldn't" and turning that into him admitting he was incapable... :rolleyes:
As far as Kaveri, I don't consider this a 'discrete card' (which you'll notice I highlighted in the quote to indicate what I was talking about). So not counting Kaveri for that reason, which other models have the True Audio DSP other than the 290X, 290 and 260X (the 3 models I was refering to).

I wasn't being pedantic with what Carmack said, the use of a different word suggested a completely opposite meaning to the one you were suggesting, you were also implying this tool was "mantle" with zero proof.

You were posting something which taken as was, was completely the opposite of what you thought it was. This isn't pedantic in any way at all, it could have been a spelling mistake, which would have made your interpretation correct, though your implication he couldn't do Mantle better incorrect as game dev's will get dozens of tools a year from various companies. With new consoles out new tools should be dime a dozen at the moment.

I will, again not pedantically, point out that I absolutely IN NO WAY suggested this meant Carmack was incapable, which again your selective quote changing my meaning. Being incapable of improving upon a particular tool does not make him an incapable person in general.

On top of this you're implying that because SOME computers didn't have onboard sound, that gaming developed sound without sound output being possible. Not every computer came with sound, not every computer came with 3d accelerators, not every computer came with an OS, so what.

My first computer didn't have onboard sound, but had a sound card, the majority of computers sold are pre-built and every computer I've ever had, with no exception, had sound output. Soundcards were common before people started making sound for games, implying otherwise because motherboards didn't use to have onboard sound is... insane.
 
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That's what should happen when you eliminate the audio cpu overhead and offload the audio processing to dedicated hardware while at the same time massively increasing audio fidelity.

Add to the fact AMD effectively reduced comparable gpu pricing with undercutting the slower 780 while directly forcing Nvidia's hand in reducing pricing, I fail to see the problem/fuss in being charged for a feature you don't want.

You don't need headphones for audio DSP btw, set up your speakers properly and you will be impressed(if the audio coder does his job).

The vids can't give a true indication as there is zero action/visual cues, maybe try it first before all the negativity-you may already be a lost cause to TA by the sound of your negativity though.:p

As I understood it, the True Audio DSP stuff doesn't eliminate your soundcard from doing it's work, it just changes what is passed to the sound card. So from that point of view it wont improve performance. It may improve performance if the feature is forced and anyone without a True Audio DSP will have to run the effects via software on the CPU. But that seems to be ruining performance for the majority of customers.

AMD are cheaper than Nvidia, it's why I bought the 290s (it certainly wasn't for the quality cooler!). It's just them adding stuff on there that I'm not interested in but would be paying for anyway. When building my Z87 rig I was torn between the MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming board and the Gigabyte Z87X-OC. In the end I got the Gigabyte because it had less things on there that I didn't want (the onboard OC buttons aren't useful for me as it's in a case so they're not reachable), however the MSI board had a KillerNIC network port and an ASMedia SATA3/USB3 controller that I didn't want. So I bought the board that didn't have the features I didn't want to be paying for.

Taking it to extremes, I'd be annoyed also if on the next series of AMD cards they included a KillerNIC network port, a built in sounds card and an ASMedia controller with SATA and USB ports on it. While we wouldn't know what they'd be charging us extra for all that, you can bet it wouldn't be free. But I'm not going to look forward to it just because it's built in because I have no need or desire for them.

My speakers sit infront of me, so I fail to see how they're gonna make it sound like something is behind me. It's the same as when I've listened to 3D audio demos in the past. When something is behind you, you can just as easily interpret it as being infront of you. I recall there being a barber-shop demo that I used headphones for. A few times 'he' would walk around you saying things like "I'll now just walk behind you to get the towel" (or something much to that effect). I could easily make my brain think he was walking in-front or even over me. I think at this point I became very sceptical about 3D sound and my opinion has not changed.
There was also that Lichdom demo, which I didn't use headphones for, and I couldn't tell the difference between stereo and True Audio except for the on-screen caption changing.

I wasn't being pedantic with what Carmack said, the use of a different word suggested a completely opposite meaning to the one you were suggesting, you were also implying this tool was "mantle" with zero proof.

You were posting something which taken as was, was completely the opposite of what you thought it was. This isn't pedantic in any way at all, it could have been a spelling mistake, which would have made your interpretation correct, though your implication he couldn't do Mantle better incorrect as game dev's will get dozens of tools a year from various companies. With new consoles out new tools should be dime a dozen at the moment.

I will, again not pedantically, point out that I absolutely IN NO WAY suggested this meant Carmack was incapable, which again your selective quote changing my meaning. Being incapable of improving upon a particular tool does not make him an incapable person in general.

On top of this you're implying that because SOME computers didn't have onboard sound, that gaming developed sound without sound output being possible. Not every computer came with sound, not every computer came with 3d accelerators, not every computer came with an OS, so what.

My first computer didn't have onboard sound, but had a sound card, the majority of computers sold are pre-built and every computer I've ever had, with no exception, had sound output. Soundcards were common before people started making sound for games, implying otherwise because motherboards didn't use to have onboard sound is... insane.

I'll ignore the bit where you're moaning about the use of a word by someone else being significant but the lack of a word used by you as not being anything other than me being picky...
My point was that soundcards weren't built in and yet it didn't stop sound being used. Just because it's not built in now, doesn't mean the technology wouldn't develop.
 
As I understood it, the True Audio DSP stuff doesn't eliminate your soundcard from doing it's work, it just changes what is passed to the sound card. So from that point of view it wont improve performance.

Your missing the point regarding performance.

Your soundcard(apart from straight output)/cpu isn't going to be processing any sound calculations, it's removing cpu overhead, it did improve performance because the soundcard(XFi with onboard dsp's) eliminated the need for audio to be calculated on the cpu.

Sound processing is offloaded to dedicated hardware the soundcard had extra hardware DSP's to deal with the processing, much the same as TA theoretically should.

On your point of speakers, while observing that you do spend a few quid on gfx to skimp on sound, you are losing gaming fidelity imho with running 2 speakers at the side of your screen but can appreciate you not placing value on sound output.

:)
 
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I'll ignore the bit where you're moaning about the use of a word by someone else being significant but the lack of a word used by you as not being anything other than me being picky...
My point was that soundcards weren't built in and yet it didn't stop sound being used. Just because it's not built in now, doesn't mean the technology wouldn't develop.

The bit I bolded, I genuinely don't know, it sounds like you're trying to suggest these things are opposite, that I'm a hypocrite, I honestly don't know because it makes no sense.

I was saying trueaudio was in almost everything into the future from AMD, I was talking about how many devices would have trueaudio, full stop. You decided to count the current AMD discrete gpu's only that had it(for no apparent reason), discounting the 4.2million ps4's shipped with it and the millions of Kaveri's shipped to OEM's. You picked out a few words from an entire sentence and decided to say only 3 discrete gpu's currently support it...... considering this wasn't my main point and you had to go out of your way to ignore the context of the words around discrete gpu, yes, I believed that was a pedantic way to pick out what you wanted to hear as per usual.


Pointing out a statement by someone else doesn't actually mean what you think it means isn't pedantic, then purposefully misquoting what I said and claiming I said something very different is also simply not on.
 
The bit I bolded, I genuinely don't know, it sounds like you're trying to suggest these things are opposite, that I'm a hypocrite, I honestly don't know because it makes no sense.

I was saying trueaudio was in almost everything into the future from AMD, I was talking about how many devices would have trueaudio, full stop. You decided to count the current AMD discrete gpu's only that had it(for no apparent reason), discounting the 4.2million ps4's shipped with it and the millions of Kaveri's shipped to OEM's. You picked out a few words from an entire sentence and decided to say only 3 discrete gpu's currently support it...... considering this wasn't my main point and you had to go out of your way to ignore the context of the words around discrete gpu, yes, I believed that was a pedantic way to pick out what you wanted to hear as per usual.


Pointing out a statement by someone else doesn't actually mean what you think it means isn't pedantic, then purposefully misquoting what I said and claiming I said something very different is also simply not on.

Let's just agree to disagree and get back on the topic of True Audio rather than semantics shall we?

The reason I separated out discrete GPU cards from APUs is because I believe they are actually different things. Same goes for consoles, I don't think a console is the same thing as a graphics card. Even you separated out APUs from discrete cards.
Building the True Audio into consoles is fine, you're buying a complete package. A package that does the general CPU stuff, GPU stuff as well as audio and other things. Putting an audio chip in this seems fine. Consoles don't really get add on cards so that's not a realistic option.
APUs already have GPU functionality built in, adding in sound processing to an APU again doesn't seem unreasonable, you've already decided to buy something that does more than one task (CPU and GPU) why not also have audio?
But with a discrete 'graphics' card they're now sticking audio on it too. Why can't a graphics card just do graphics? If you want to do sound stuff too, fine, but do it on a discrete sound card. As I said before, how far does this go? Will they put a network port on the card next because they've come up with a new idea for that that may help online gaming? Maybe they'll put a SATA and USB controller on there to allow direct access to storage for quicker texture access. Maybe they could embed a sort of CPU in there too to take the work of the CPU/APU or even work in conjunction with it (because the CPU already does so much work this added one could help out!).
AMD happy to put all this extra stuff on their cards, but not a decent stock cooler...

I guess I just liked the days when a graphics card was a graphics card and not a graphics card + soundcard combo.
 
You guys haven't used it either (as far as I'm aware), but you're coming down on the positive side. As said before we're all different and have different opinions.
I've watched the same videos I'm guessing you have and it didn't offer any benefit that I could notice. So it just seems like another process that has to be run and that can go wrong with no benefit.

But you said you will avoid any game that use it? That's just abit over the top dont you think?
They is a high chance in next year or so all PC games will support TrueAudio, the PS4 also use the same thing and is easy to use between platforms.

So you might have a small selection of games to buy :D
 
Whilst I have never listened to AMDs true audio I did have some thoughts.

True Audio will only shows it strengths when we hear a rock solid sound engine in games. There's a number of issues (basically real life audio REAL TIME effects) developers need to address in their engines such as

- proximity effect (biggy for distance perception)
- flutter echo
- reverb (this is your CPU hog, especially with x Automatic guns going off in say, a church map (long RT60) as well as other sources.)

and AMD keep upgrading the

- algorithms for 3d space (Getting that stereo width correct as well as the height)
- sample rate (I guess we may needs to see faster chips here)
- Bit depth (Just stick audio in 24 bit already, no need to go any higher after this)
 
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But you said you will avoid any game that use it? That's just abit over the top dont you think?
They is a high chance in next year or so all PC games will support TrueAudio, the PS4 also use the same thing and is easy to use between platforms.

So you might have a small selection of games to buy :D

If that's the case then I'll just have to hope you can disable it. Unless Nvidia get support for it too then I imagine there'll have to be an option to not use it. I guess 'avoid it' might have been a little over the top, more just not use it if I can help it. To be fair I think if any game makes it essential to the game mechanics that you have 3D surround sound then it won't be my type of game. Luckily nobody's done that with 3D graphics yet, so hopefully nobody will with sound.

If there's a game I really want and there is no option except to use True Audio then I'll get it and put up with it. I know some people have said, I don't really like that sort of game, but I'll probably get it because it uses Mantle. I'm not exactly going to be the opposite of that and refuse to get a True Audio game, I'll buy what I want regardless of technologies, but I wont be buying something just because it has True Audio.

I guess a bit like games that use PhysX with some AMD users. While you might prefer to not buy games that use PhysX, it won't stop you completely if you really want the game. (I don't mean you specifically there)
 
Your missing the point regarding performance.

Your soundcard(apart from straight output)/cpu isn't going to be processing any sound calculations, it's removing cpu overhead, it did improve performance because the soundcard(XFi with onboard dsp's) eliminated the need for audio to be calculated on the cpu.

Sound processing is offloaded to dedicated hardware the soundcard had extra hardware DSP's to deal with the processing, much the same as TA theoretically should.

On your point of speakers, while observing that you do spend a few quid on gfx to skimp on sound, you are losing gaming fidelity imho with running 2 speakers at the side of your screen but can appreciate you not placing value on sound output.

:)

Thinking about it, if this is the case then we wont need soundcards any more. We can pass it through onboard sound.
This would free up the soundcard slot for a dedicated True Audio card!
I am working on the presumption here that anyone that cares about 3D audio is enough of an audiophile that they've got a decent sound card as is.
 
You don't need headphones for audio DSP btw, set up your speakers properly and you will be impressed(if the audio coder does his job).

Some stuff like environment effects and normal surround works fine on speakers but the binaural reproduction aspect doesn't really work without headphones.
 
Ive explained in several topics/replies how True Audio works, others have done the same and it baffles me so many people still get it wrong. The Hawaii event explained it pretty well, atleast for me it did. So please before some of you starts "debating" what it is and how it works please go watch that.
 
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