Work capability assessments stopped.

[garak112]

I did work experience in a benefits office about 10 years ago and it was an eye opening experience.

At the time you would fill out a form and attach a doctors note to get benefits and after a period of time (3 months I think) they would send someone round to assess you properly.

Something like 70% of all the cases in that office would have the benefits stopped after a proper assessment. One of the cases I looked at the assessor had noted that the claimant had run down the stairs to answer the door thinking it was someone else. Their initial claim was that they were paralysed from the waist down.

I took several things from my time on work experience:

• There are people out there who will try and get as much as possible whilst doing as little as possible
• GPs are over cautious
• It is possible to get a doctors note saying anything for the right amount of cash

Whilst I don't doubt that ATOS are doing it badly, there does need to be something to weed out people like this.

 

[kindai]

Genuine question, why would Labour's deregulation policy (that I don't agree with) cause problems for other banks around the globe? Surely if our banks can affect banks in other countries then the reverse is possible regardless of how much regulation is or isn't in place?

Because it allowed our banks here in England to purchase boarderline insane packages consisting of huge ammounts of sub-prime loans.

Put like this, would you give someone £1000 to bet at the casino, on the basis they might pay you back £3000 if they win.

But, in the meanwhile because you think you have £3000 coming back to you, you then lend out £1000 to 3 other people on the same deal.

All seems good and dandy, your books say you have £12,000 in assets coming back to you, but the reality is you have -£4000, because you have next to no chance of ever getting any of that money back.

 

[Andy_82]

For your point to be valid though there need to be the jobs available for the people who want to do them. When the majority of part-time low paid jobs are manual - cleaning, supermarket shelf stacking etc. it's easy to see why "get a job" isn't an option for a huge number of disabled people.

it's not just lack of jobs, but the support needed to be able to do them which is where the extra cost comes from.

 

[MB101]

For your point to be valid though there need to be the jobs available for the people who want to do them. When the majority of part-time low paid jobs are manual - cleaning, supermarket shelf stacking etc. it's easy to see why "get a job" isn't an option for a huge number of disabled people. Even more so when their competition is an able bodied person that doesn't require anything in terms of investment from the employer.

That is a fair point.

The job market is hard. Doubly so if you're not able bodied, but for the sake of argument lets rule out anyone missing limbs etc or wheelchair bound. Lets take the usual suspects, the bad backs, the depressed and the slightly nutty..

These ARE able people. They choose to have the disabled mentality. I've been a sufferer of bi-polar disorder for many many years now. Never have I let it drag me to the pits of being a leech claiming I can't do anything.

I sucked it up, and got on with it. Yeah some days where ****, hell even whole years were ****. Thing is, not working would have made it twice as hard.

Such people need a swift kick up the arse. They are capable of holding down a job. Their defeatist attitude is all that holds them back.

 

[spankingtexan]

Nearly 2.5 million able bodied people chasing 500k jobs and people think the disabled should be pushed into work, there simply isn't enough jobs, this is nothing more than the ruthless rich acting like a bunch of mardy arsed bullying school kids and we can see those types in this thread.

 

[Caged]

Because it allowed our banks here in England to purchase boarderline insane packages consisting of huge ammounts of sub-prime loans.

Put like this, would you give someone £1000 to bet at the casino, on the basis they might pay you back £3000 if they win.

But, in the meanwhile because you think you have £3000 coming back to you, you then lend out £1000 to 3 other people on the same deal.

All seems good and dandy, your books say you have £12,000 in assets coming back to you, but the reality is you have -£4000, because you have next to no chance of ever getting any of that money back.

Ty, that's a decent explanation. I should probably get round to reading Where Does Money Come From? that's been on my Amazon list forever.

 

[MB101]

Nearly 2.5 million able bodied people chasing 500k jobs and people think the disabled should be pushed into work, there simply isn't enough jobs, this is nothing more than the ruthless rich acting like a bunch of mardy arsed bullying school kids and we can see those types in this thread.

No it's not. It's pushing able people into showing some sign of being useful.

A quick browse through your post history shows a lot of complaining about the way unemployed are treated/precieved. Have you had a job in the 4 years since you joined?

If not, why?

 

[spankingtexan]

No it's not. It's pushing able people into showing some sign of being useful.

A quick browse through your post history shows a lot of complaining about the way unemployed are treated/precieved. Have you had a job in the 4 years since you joined?

If not, why?

Just stating the facts, deal with it. It isn't able people being pushed.

 

[arknor]

That's not my point. If someone so seriously disabled can make a go at life, then someone with a minor aliment can work. That is my point.

Not everyone claiming disability is at the stage where they can no longer function within the working world. Those that can still function should be pushed into work, so they can contribute, instead of being a leech.

most of them are unemployable....

lol disabled olympics how many are those are from well off families or ex military?


I'm sure it's easy to get motivated when you have a personal team around you 24/7 unlike most normal disabled people that struggle day to day and don't get any help from adult services

 

[atpbx]

We had a far higher national debt post WW2 and not only did we manage to pay it off but we rebuilt our country AND introduced social services like the NHS.

The main difference back then was our government had balls and taxed the rich, whereas today you've got governments ignoring tax evasion and the whole of the pleb working class defending it like they're billionaires.

So discounting the fact that everything from power generation to road haulage was nationalised then, so the government made money from virtually every service a person needed to use, while delivering absolutely appalling service levels, thats got nothing to do with it?

You think having to prove you are ill to claim a life on the sick is bad, imagine a world with rolling black outs, 3 day working weeks, rubbish in the streets, the dead not being buried, and no such thing as a next day delivery, but rather next month delivery (if the lorry drivers were not on strike, demanding 45% pay rises to get parity with the automotive workers- also on strike).

And all that not just funded through your taxes, but the money you paid out to use those services as well.

 

[Hades]

So discounting the fact that everything from power generation to road haulage was nationalised then, so the government made money from virtually every service a person needed to use, while delivering absolutely appalling service levels, thats got nothing to do with it?

You think having to prove you are ill to claim a life on the sick is bad, imagine a world with rolling black outs, 3 day working weeks, rubbish in the streets, the dead not being buried, and no such thing as a next day delivery, but rather next month delivery (if the lorry drivers were not on strike, demanding 45% pay rises to get parity with the automotive workers- also on strike).

And all that not just funded through your taxes, but the money you paid out to use those services as well.

That took me right back to being a kid in the 70s and nothing that labour has done since has persuaded me to vote for them in my adult life. The country was on its knees back then.

 

[daveip]

I'm probably going to get smashed for this but here's my personal experience of this.

I know people that cheat the benefits system and it gets right to my bones when people are fully capable of working but yet cheat the system and then to top off the level of cheekiness, is to go out and work cash in hand anyways! If this was given to GPs, it would just be a massive burden on the NHS. If the claimant isn't happy with the response from 1 GP, they'll just go see another one until they get the answer they want. The NHS is somewhat broken like that.

Finally, having previously been a higher tax band payer, I decided that I would cut my losses and move country before I would have to survive an Ed Miliband governed Britain, bringing back the 50p tax rate and going on a spending spree to satisfy the polls. I'm not going to pay more tax just because I earn more. When I had to go on benefits, I didn't play the system and I got jack all out of it.

If the UK was to be a properly fair system, flat tax rate for all, flat level of access to public services for all. This is the system that's currently in the country that I reside in.

OP - apologies for having to digress from the topic slightly. There is a strain on the welfare system, and it's from people that are cheating it. There are far too many people cheating the system and until it's cracked down, there will be, inevitably, people that are caught in the line of fire. Don't take it out on the government; they're just trying to balance the books and make sure this country isn't run to the ground. Take it out on the cheats and frauds that are plentiful.

 

[arknor]

lol you act like the tiny amount of money spent on disability benefits is ruining the country...
it's peanuts compared to the overall welfare spending

state pensions
74.22 billion
disability living allowance
12.57 billion


it's clear we are targeting the wrong group.

they should stop winter fuel payments etc and let them die off faster

 

[deuse]

So discounting the fact that everything from power generation to road haulage was nationalised then, so the government made money from virtually every service a person needed to use, while delivering absolutely appalling service levels, thats got nothing to do with it?

You think having to prove you are ill to claim a life on the sick is bad, imagine a world with rolling black outs, 3 day working weeks, rubbish in the streets, the dead not being buried, and no such thing as a next day delivery, but rather next month delivery (if the lorry drivers were not on strike, demanding 45% pay rises to get parity with the automotive workers- also on strike).

And all that not just funded through your taxes, but the money you paid out to use those services as well.

Great days Loads more jobs and plenty of cash to go around. Beer was so cheap it was silly and you hardly saw a fat bird

 

[daveip]

lol you act like the tiny amount of money spent on disability benefits is ruining the country...
it's peanuts compared to the overall welfare spending

state pensions
74.22 billion
disability living allowance
12.57 billion


it's clear we are targeting the wrong group.

they should stop winter fuel payments etc and let them die off faster

I was only talking about the area concerned with from the OP. State pensions is another thing. You want to go tell Bob Crow and the bods at UNISON, NUT, NASUWT and countless other unions that you want to reduce the pension pot? Good luck getting out alive mate ...

 

[estebanrey]

the torys had nothing to do with this.

The Tory's are in power now and pushing this hard.

it's amazing how the Tory's have everyone convinced it's all Labour's fault.

Tories
Tories
Tories
TORIES

 

[nick.lidgett]

Short of ethnic cleasing there is nothing that can and will be done about this situtation in our life times

 

[Hades]

Short of ethnic cleasing there is nothing that can and will be done about this situtation in our life times

Wait, what?

 

[Hagar]

lol you act like the tiny amount of money spent on disability benefits is ruining the country...
it's peanuts compared to the overall welfare spending

state pensions
74.22 billion
disability living allowance
12.57 billion


it's clear we are targeting the wrong group.

they should stop disability living allowance etc and let them die off faster

Tongue in cheek but how does that sound?


The crunch will arrive for many people who have subsisted on benefits most or all their working lives will arrive at state pension age with zero savings, zero property and having to live on the basic state pension. That will come as a shock.

I have sympathy towards the disabled in this country who need our support. I do believe that we have a disproportionate percentage of people in the country who are claiming disability and who have no intention of ever supporting themselves or contributing in any way.

Great days Loads more jobs and plenty of cash to go around. Beer was so cheap it was silly and you hardly saw a fat bird

Yeah, I started in a bank at £12 per week, got a factory job on a lathe at £20pw. then as an engineer towards the end of the seventies was paid a great salary of £2500 per annum.

Mortgages were very difficult to come by, food was expensive in that the shopping bill was a greater percentage of take home pay

 

[elmarko]

Short of ethnic cleasing there is nothing that can and will be done about this situtation in our life times

Disabled isn't an ethnicity.

Regarding the OP.

I'm glad the work assessments have stopped, it's not really that civilised to target the poorest & most vulnerable for imaginary savings. Both Labour & the Conservatives have failed the poorest in the UK, with ineptitude being a prime factor for Labour & utter lack of interest from the Conservatives.

The simple fact our political system isn't set-up in such a way meaningful changes can be implemented (short-termism by ignoring long term solutions - coupled with the lack of patience & understanding of complex social issues within the voting public).

Work capability regarding potential savings for the government isn't going to make a huge different - expected fraud is a very small percentage of the entire disability budget.

If I was cynical (which I am) I'd say the entire focus is designed to appease the average dail mail reader into believing the government is cracking down on "Those scroungers!", while doing very little to address serious social & economic issues the country is facing.

But don't worry, I'm sure when various 'news'-papers run out of stories of fat women with 17 kids living in a huge mansion off the back of the state they will find another distraction for the idiotic public.

I have sympathy towards the disabled in this country who need our support. I do believe that we have a disproportionate percentage of people in the country who are claiming disability and who have no intention of ever supporting themselves or contributing in any way.

Do you have any evidence to support this view, or is it just a hunch?.