Homeschooling - Thoughts as a parent or child with experience?

[Xordium]

Let's get back to the larger discussion, gents.

This is part of the larger discussion Magnolia. One of the key reasons given for a desire for homeschooling is the failure of state schools to endow the children 'these days' (which every generation has said and will say) moral decency etc and then we have an immediate example of the very opposite. Should be be taking advice about learning and the best way of learning from someone who plays so free and easy with common respect for the actual learners. That removes a significant amount of credibility in my eyes.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Whilst I find LateX'Dog's views of the world at odds with my own and his reliance on his wife's achievements and capabilities self-belittling and jarring

Hey i completely gave up at school, use me as an example, what ever method you teach your children, don't let them give up.

 

[Xordium]

Hey i completely gave up at school, use me as an example, what ever method you teach your children, don't let them give up.

So what life skills have you gained and abilities have you developed that have facilitated your acquisition of knowledge to make such a complete and fair appraisal of what is best for your child's future education over and above what your wife has told you? Or are you just toeing the line for want of a better expression?

 

[LateX'Dog]

So what life skills have you gained and abilities have you developed that have facilitated your acquisition of knowledge to make such a complete and fair appraisal of what is best for your child's future education over and above what your wife has told you? Or are you just toeing the line for want of a better expression?

What gives anyone the right to decide what is best for their child?

What gives parent A the right to smack their child?

What gives parent B the right to smoke near a child?

You can only work with the information you have got to hand, i've got access to lots of resources and friends who i can discuss, i have access to lots of academics and professors who i can talk with. Does this make me better then Joe B Blogs down the street who teaches Geography at a secondary school? No, because we all lead different lives.

Sonder - Empathy. Appreciate that others lead their own lives and have their own feelings, beliefs and ideals.

 

[Xordium]

Yes, we do all live different lives but society will judge and measure us by the same criteria. It pays to give credence to those measures because they will detail what opportunities are available for our lives.

We do have to work with the information we have available but when we have the opportunity we have to find a balanced (note I said 'complete' deliberately) viewpoint to discover some resemblance of 'truth'. Chatting with academics and professors who are most likely working from the same paradigm as your wife and most likely have no tangible concept of work in the 'real world' away from their ivory towers will not give you a balanced view.

What will be the schools be like in Australia in the area where you are going? etc - have you researched that etc. I know where I live in England all four local primaries are excellent and the secondary ones are too - there is no need to move any child away from them.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Yes, we do all live different lives but society will judge and measure us by the same criteria. It pays to give credence to those measures because they will detail what opportunities are available for our lives.

That's narrow minded. If you let society effect your life, then you'll be forever held back by it. Its the people who break away from social norms that are the inventors, the Nobel prize winners (Except Obama ) and the people to aspire to. The guy who found the Higgs, never published a single paper until the Higgs, in EVERY single field of science, he would have been fired, but he broke social and academic bonds by doing this. Now its the talk of the academia world.

You see videos on youtube of people dying in the street and people walking past them like they are just some insignificant thing, yet that person could be a dad, a granddad, a mum, grandma, robber or inventor and a simple act of ignoring social paradigm saves them and they get to live their life again.

Society is a collection of ideas that is manipulated and twisted by greed, i don't want my children to grow up aspiring to buy a new 4x4 or the biggest and fastest gadget. I want them to appreciate life, its short enough as it is and giving them the ability to choose is what parents should be aspiring too. If my son grows up and ends up drifting from country to country, I'll know he's enjoyed himself, as he has chose to do this. I'll always be their to support him no matter what happens.

We do have to work with the information we have available but when we have the opportunity we have to find a balanced (note I said 'complete' deliberately) viewpoint to discover some resemblance of 'truth'. Chatting with academics and professors who are most likely working from the same paradigm as your wife and most likely have no tangible concept of work in the 'real world' away from their ivory towers will not give you a balanced view.

That's why you have friends, family members, people on the internet and people you meet down the street.

Some of the most interesting conversations I've ever had are with people who have had no idea what they want to do in life, because they just live it as they see fit.

Why is this to some such an alien concept? Why must you aspire to a job at the end of your education? Why can education not be an experience, rather then a method to fast track people to jobs?

I appreciate jobs need doing, but there will always be a job. If something needs doing, there will always be someone there to fill it.

 

[dannyjo22]

I was home schooled until I was about 6ish. 1979-80ish. When I started school at 6 I was moved forward twice so ended up in the year above where I would have been. Only my hand writing was a bit behind where it should have been. My parents worked hard to make sure I was around other kids but I feel it could be a reason why I was so introverted through my school years.

I'm under no illusions that although my mum did the best she could she had got to the end of her abilities.

It really wouldn't be possible today, standards have moved on so very far from when my mum did it. My son at 4 and his class are doing far more at a higher level than I would have done at the same age. I don't think you could have any home life at all and home school. You would get nothing done.

The amount of homework my son gets at 4 is staggering tbh. I didn't get any homework of any depth until I was 11. My only disappointment really is how little 1 on 1 reading they actually do with a teacher these days.

Although I do compensate for that with 20 minutes per evening where he reads me books of his and then I read him a childrens novel for 30 minutes and we discuss the story.

A few of the kids at my sons school have teachers for parents and you can tell they were drilled before they got to school. All doing well in a particular area but they are the most souless kids I have seen. All of them struggled to be left at school or clung on to their mums and are just not fun or particularly happy kids. It's as though the parents forgot all about learning while having fun works too.

 

[LateX'Dog]

I was home schooled until I was about 6ish. 1979-80ish. When I started school at 6 I was moved forward twice so ended up in the year above where I would have been. Only my hand writing was a bit behind where it should have been. My parents worked hard to make sure I was around other kids but I feel it could be a reason why I was so introverted through my school years.

I'm under no illusions that although my mum did the best she could she had got to the end of her abilities.

It really wouldn't be possible today, standards have moved on so very far from when my mum did it. My son at 4 and his class are doing far more at a higher level than I would have done at the same age. I don't think you could have any home life at all and home school. You would get nothing done.

The amount of homework my son gets at 4 is staggering tbh. I didn't get any homework of any depth until I was 11. My only disappointment really is how little 1 on 1 reading they actually do with a teacher these days.

Although I do compensate for that with 20 minutes per evening where he reads me books of his and then I read him a childrens novel for 30 minutes and we discuss the story.

A few of the kids at my sons school have teachers for parents and you can tell they were drilled before they got to school. All doing well in a particular area but they are the most souless kids I have seen. All of them struggled to be left at school or clung on to their mums and are just not fun or particularly happy kids. It's as though the parents forgot all about learning while having fun works too.

When does your kid, get to be a kid?

4 years old I'm guessing 8-3 Monday to Friday, gets home, does homework, eats tea, you both read and then bed.

 

[Xordium]

That's narrow minded.

No, that realistic.

Why must you aspire to a job at the end of your education?

So you can stand on your own two feet and are not reliant on your parents or a partner?

Why can education not be an experience, rather then a method to fast track people to jobs?

I never said it couldn't be a component however when it is state subsidised which it is then the goal must be to return a profit to the group that sponsored it - society. Although, that profit doesn't necessarily need to be financial.

I appreciate jobs need doing, but there will always be a job. If something needs doing, there will always be someone there to fill it.

There will always be a job but will it be the right job - will it support your family the way you wish for them to be supported - not every bloke can cling to the coattails of a successful woman nor the other way around.

You may think that creative types are in demand but the simple fact is predominately they aren't - as an employer, moreso with junior staff, you want people to do as they are told to get the job done that they never have to or are incapable of seeing the big picture about. And as a junior member you learn the ropes to progress then you can start to see the bigger picture.

 

[Xordium]

When does your kid, get to be a kid?

4 years old I'm guessing 8-3 Monday to Friday, gets home, does homework, eats tea, you both read and then bed.

See this is where you are so wrong and have got it all wrong - if you think that their schooling hours are spent in Victorian rote exercise you are wrong the curriculum clearly states and is designed to use learning through play at reception level. The fact you don't acknowledge or wilfully ignore this suggests how much you have actually learned and how much you are spouting, by rote, what has been drummed into you.

 

[Skeptic]

Education has value, it is because education has value that people home school their children. Usually people that home school their children want more for their children than what is available to them in the school system. (well that is their justification for it, even if it turns out not to be the case) Sure there are going to be some people who bring up their children and don't teach them near as much as they should, because they are christian for example and only taught them about the bible. There is that risk to say society as a whole. But i think they give home schooling a bad name in general. When i think of home school child i used to think of over shielded and geeky children with no social skills but that does not have to be the case. If the parents are a bit odd and they home school their child and don't expose them to more people then they are going to be odd like that.

What do children learn coming out of school though? They are certainly taught at school, well the claim is that they are taught at school all the content that is required for them to pass the year. I find that is rarely the case any way, I remember some teachers i had would sometimes not bother teaching us anything as we were just too restless and would not listen. We would go in to tests with only a few lessons on the subjects. I don't know if that is the same for more people? I did have some good teachers and did learn at school. But i said it depends on the school a lot. I think i would end up moving house to near a good school if i was unable to homeschool. Maybe even a combination of private tutor home school and high school or something like that.

I do agree with some of your views...there are some teachers, indeed maybe some schools, where practice is poor. This is unforgivable.

What I think is the salient point is that while the structure of school may seem unappealing, the fact is that through these institutions children learn life-related, transferable skills which - while not necessarily fair - are in line with how wider society is structured.

Home-schooling may indeed produce successful young people - I have seen evidence that it does. My point is that it is unorthodox for a reason. You are correct in saying that a combination of 'school' and 'education at home' are - predictably - the right way to hedge one's bets in regard to supporting developing young people!

 

[LateX'Dog]

No, that realistic.

Its realistic to you, because that's how you think.

So you can stand on your own two feet and are not reliant on your parents or a partner?

I'm sure given the tools my children will be able to do this and enjoy life.

I never said it couldn't be a component however when it is state subsidised which it is then the goal must be to return a profit to the group that sponsored it - society. Although, that profit doesn't necessarily need to be financial.

"Return a profit", human beings are not beads to be moved across the wire. That's a very cold way of thinking.

To be honest i don't care about society (Shocked I'm sure ), I work, its a crap job, but i get paid (Along side being a stay at home dad). My wife works and our aim is to provide a life for us, not to provide a return on an investment.

I want to have a life outside the confines of the social norm. I want my 70 years + on this world to have a meaning, i don't want to look back and go "Well, them 40 years at BT as a manager was worth every penny" and i don't want my children confined by such a primitive train of thought.

If they choose to get a job, that's their choice. If they choose to be a country hopper working in bars, that's their choice. I don't want them growing up thinking they owe anyone anything, because they don't. Its their life, not yours, mine or the bank managers.

I've already thrown away enough of my life to realise this and if i can pass this on to at least 1 member of my family or person i meet, then I'm happy. Because worrying about pointless crap doesn't grow you as a person, experiences do and you can't experience life from behind a desk.

There will always be a job but will it be the right job - will it support your family the way you wish for them to be supported - not every bloke can cling to the coattails of a successful woman nor the other way around.

Now your just being rude. Seriously, i thought you where educated.

You may think that creative types are in demand but the simple fact is predominately they aren't - as an employer, moreso with junior staff, you want people to do as they are told to get the job done that they never have to or are incapable of seeing the big picture about. And as a junior member you learn the ropes to progress then you can start to see the bigger picture.

You may aspire to this, you may want your children to aspire to this. But i don't want to waste their lives on triviality.

Creativity is always in demand, who thinks of new business ideas, methods of science, Art, techniques and so on. Its always the people who think differently, the people who look outside the box and not being confined by it.

We'll never understand each other, because i want my children to experience their life, you want them to be a functional members of the society machine.

 

[dannyjo22]

When does your kid, get to be a kid?

4 years old I'm guessing 8-3 Monday to Friday, gets home, does homework, eats tea, you both read and then bed.

At school. It's not like his lesson are 1hr 10m like they used to be. IIRC the reception teachers said they work off a less than 10 minute attention span for learning with a 5 year old.

He comes home plays with his toys 3.30 to 5. Dinner, bath ready for bed. He doesn't get homework every night. There's normally a fair bit to get through over the week end.

I will be volunteering in his class soon to get a better feel for how and what he's learning and how I can carry that on at home.

 

[LateX'Dog]

See this is where you are so wrong and have got it all wrong - if you think that their schooling hours are spent in Victorian rote exercise you are wrong the curriculum clearly states and is designed to use learning through play at reception level. The fact you don't acknowledge or wilfully ignore this suggests how much you have actually learned and how much you are spouting, by rote, what has been drummed into you.

Not at all, you don't learn about life stuck in a school. You learn how to become a cog in a machine.

You may have your set working shift breaks where you get to run around and interact with others, but its heavily monitored and controlled.

In New Zealand they removed rules at play time (The phrase is just ironic, time allowed to play, their children for Christ sake.), it completely changed everything. Less bullying, more cooperative play and much more.

We live in a world which is so controlled that releasing the control is scary, yet doing so bares fruits we had no idea existed.

 

[LateX'Dog]

At school. It's not like his lesson are 1hr 10m like they used to be. IIRC the reception teachers said they work off a less than 10 minute attention span for learning with a 5 year old.

He comes home plays with his toys 3.30 to 5. Dinner, bath ready for bed. He doesn't get homework every night. There's normally a fair bit to get through over the week end.

I will be volunteering in his class soon to get a better feel for how and what he's learning and how I can carry that on at home.

I'm not judging here, just wanted to understand.

 

[Skeptic]

At school. It's not like his lesson are 1hr 10m like they used to be. IIRC the reception teachers said they work off a less than 10 minute attention span for learning with a 5 year old.

He comes home plays with his toys 3.30 to 5. Dinner, bath ready for bed. He doesn't get homework every night. There's normally a fair bit to get through over the week end.

I will be volunteering in his class soon to get a better feel for how and what he's learning and how I can carry that on at home.

You sound like a great dad - keep it up!

Also, for what it is worth, you are entirely correct about the structure of a school day for a little one - lots of learning through play, opportunities for exploration, and traditional 'learning' will be through songs, games etc.

I've yet to be in a Nursery or Reception class where it has felt arduous for the child - a reflection on how education has changed.

 

[dannyjo22]

I'm not judging here, just wanted to understand.

I didn't take it as you were. tbh I had no clue how much effort this would all take before I had my son. I assumed it was all done at school at he wouldn't get any homework until he was in secondary school like I did. The only homework I ever got was fun topics if we felt like it.

With modern paced life even if one of us gave up work home schooling would be near impossible for us and maintain anything like a sane home life or doing household chores or even feeding both of us while learning.

I'd rather leave it to the professionals and support where I can. I have been amazed at how well they bought my son on in confidence in just two terms

 

[Skeptic]

Not at all, you don't learn about life stuck in a school. You learn how to become a cog in a machine.

You may have your set working shift breaks where you get to run around and interact with others, but its heavily monitored and controlled.

In New Zealand they removed rules at play time (The phrase is just ironic, time allowed to play, their children for Christ sake.), it completely changed everything. Less bullying, more cooperative play and much more.

We live in a world which is so controlled that releasing the control is scary, yet doing so bares fruits we had no idea existed.

 

[LateX'Dog]

img

Like it.

She agrees with me, does that fit the meme?

 

[Xordium]

I've already thrown away enough of my life to realise this

So you are reliving your life through them - because you couldn't do it they can't. So rather than allowing them the opportunity to go through their early lives like the bulk of society they will be interacting with you would rather the shove them down a path because you feel you have failed or were failed - when most likely neither did happen.

You have readily dismissed state schools but at every opportunity you have demonstrated little comprehension of how those schools work, what they expect and the methods they use to achieve it.

We'll never understand each other, because i want my children to experience their life, you want them to be a functional members of the society machine.

Those are two very hefty assumptions - both wrong. I want them to experience life but I am fully aware what it takes to personally do that. I also want them to understand they don't live in cloud cuckoo land.