Audi A4

Leased car usually works out better than buying new.

No it doesn't - because with a leased car somebody else buys it new and the lease payments must cover the depreciation they'll incur *and* provide profit for them as well. Generally leasing is the most expensive way to own a car, but the most convenient.

There are exceptions, sometimes there are outstanding lease deals around, but they are the exception not the rule.

Lots of random bizarre old wives tales in this thread it seems.

Monthly payments are irrelevant, all that matters when appraising a method of purchase is total cost of ownership.

Of course a new car on a PCP has lower monthly payments, because you are renting the car effectively and have an enormous final payment to make at the end if you want to keep it!

You can borrow from the bank at just 4.5% APR. Doing this and buying used will almost always have the lowest TCO of any of the choices and most attempts to convince you to the contrary are just man-maths at their finest.
 
That's what i ended up doing. Originally was looking at buying a second hand TT for around 20k, ended up with a brand new TT which it works out I'm paying 20k for over 4 years

This is exactly my point.

Your used £20k TT would have belonged to you. Your car. Your asset. It will depreciate. Perhaps by as much as £10k. But its yours.

Your £20k over 4 years brand new TT isn't yours and unless you pay the hefty GFV at the end, you hand back.

So effectively then it will cost you TWICE as much surely? But you don't appear to have noticed because the monthly payments are lower :confused:

Now if you decided a new car was something you wanted badly enough that you would pay twice as much for it then all power to you - entirely your choice and a decision many people make. But you seem to believe its the same cost as the used one but surely its not?
 
[TW]Fox;26067243 said:
This is exactly my point.

Your used £20k TT would have belonged to you. Your car. Your asset. It will depreciate. Perhaps by as much as £10k. But its yours.

Your £20k over 4 years brand new TT isn't yours and unless you pay the hefty GFV at the end, you hand back.

So effectively then it will cost you TWICE as much surely? But you don't appear to have noticed because the monthly payments are lower :confused:

Now if you decided a new car was something you wanted badly enough that you would pay twice as much for it then all power to you - entirely your choice and a decision many people make. But you seem to believe its the same cost as the used one but surely its not?
It worked for me because i almost certainly will not be keeping it at the end, the longest I've owned a car was 3 years, last one was 2. In this timemi expect to be spending less on the car than I would have for what 20k can buy second hand as well. So worst case for me is my financial situation is worse at the end and I don't keep the car, best case is my financial situation is the same or better and I just change over to another car.
 
You seem to have fundamentally misunderstood the difference between the two options you considered.

The new car you have selected is roughly twice as expensive to own for 4 years as the used car you were considering. Thats not to say it was the wrong choice (Though I'd question the logic of a brand new TT the year it gets replaced given its been out for 8 years but thats another story) but to present it as a similarly priced option to buying used is just plain wrong?
 
I have to agree. If you'd bought a 20k car, after 4 years you'd have a 10k car to part-ex on your next purchase.

If you lease a car at 20k over 4 years you're down 20k and have nothing at the end of 4 years.
 
I can't think of any reason I'd buy a A4 now and especially at that price. On the whole they are a pretty boring car to drive with steering more similar to that of a barge...
 
I had absolutely no problem buying a car without finance a couple of weeks ago whilst getting the car for a price I considered fair.

They would very much like to sell you finance, but if the deal works for both them and you its a non issie
 
I can't think of any reason I'd buy a A4 now and especially at that price. On the whole they are a pretty boring car to drive with steering more similar to that of a barge...

No its not. They handle pretty well, they just have no feel, just like any other Audi made in the last 15 years.There is nothing remotely interesting to drive in the current Audi range, R cars aside.

Audi's are nice to look at and sit in and have a posh badge and sod all else to redeem them to people who care about cars imo.Style over substance.
 
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Style? They have no styling flair at all. They are extremely dull and dated to look at with an old recycled design. Even the Audi 80 looks better than the A4. In 30 years time people will probably look back confused and ponder at what the whole Audi hype was all about.
 
[TW]Fox;26067321 said:
You seem to have fundamentally misunderstood the difference between the two options you considered.

The new car you have selected is roughly twice as expensive to own for 4 years as the used car you were considering. Thats not to say it was the wrong choice (Though I'd question the logic of a brand new TT the year it gets replaced given its been out for 8 years but thats another story) but to present it as a similarly priced option to buying used is just plain wrong?

I fear you are exaggerating the cost of a pcp deal somewhat. You do NOT pay twice as much as buying the car with a straight loan from the bank.

The way it ACTUALLY works, I shall try to explain using 20k purchase price.

You take out a loan for 20k, and pay over 40 months. Say 5% interest over the term for easy calculation. So you pay £21k at £525 per month. Simples.

Now, for pcp, you have a 10k future payment to make. But the same 5% interest over the term. So you pay £11k over the 40 months at £275 per month, and still owe the 10k at the end.

So that's for cars the same value. You actually pay the same, the difference is you are just offsetting some of the cost, while paying interest on that amount.

So say the £20k motor is 18 months old. And a new one costs £30k. Same 5% over the term means £1500 in interest. It'll likely depreciate faster too, so the future value after 40 months might be £13k. So you pay the £17k depreciation cost plus the £1500 interest. So £18,500 over the 40 months. So £462.50 per month.

But, you have driven a new car for that 40 months, 36 of which with manufacturers warranty, rather than 18 months with the second hand car (worth around £750 in these big German motors). You have paid less per month too, by £37.50, or £1500 over the term. BUT, you are still owed £13,000. But you have saved £2250 over the term, so you are now owed £10,750 in real terms.

£750 more than the difference in purchase price between the new and used cars. So you are paying more, but only a little more than the difference in purchase price. Plus, your car will be 18 months newer, so if the older one is worth £10k, the 18 month newer one should be worth that £750 more come selling time.

All you are REALLY doing then, is offsetting the value of a 58 month old motor, if done right, at no cost to yourself, while driving a brand new car.

Of course, you don't own the car at the end of it unless you pay that final payment. But most people, I would imagine, would consider 3.5 years enough with a car and would be wanting the next one anyway.

It certainly isn't double the price, assuming you are talking cars of the same value.
 
Whilst in principle (al?) you're right with the above - couple of observations.

5% Apr over 40 months is more like £22k

Most people - like the TT example above will use PCP to get a more expensive car than they would have through a straight purchase/hire purchase, so your total loan amount is probably more like £20k vs £30k. Total interest obviously goes up with this and (worryingly) many people will push the ownership term out as far as possible

There is nothing wrong with PCP, but people seem to misunderstand what they are actually doing when taking it out to buy a newer version of the same car and deal only in cost per month not total borrowed and repaid. It's a dangerous road to go down.
 
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I fear you are exaggerating the cost of a pcp deal somewhat. You do NOT pay twice as much as buying the car with a straight loan from the bank.

You've completely missed my point. I am not comparing the cost of PCP with the cost of other funding methods for the same car. I'm using the OP's figures for his £20k over 4 years deal versus the £20k used TT he was going to buy.

£20k over 4 years for a new car, handing it back = £20k
£20k purchase of used car, depreciating 50% over 4 years = £10k

£20k is twice as much as £10k.
 
Fox - I know it's hard for you to get your head around this - people buy new cars in this way because they want a new car, specified to their liking. They aren't bothered if it costs £xxk more, all they want is a new car every 3 years.

People don't always do/want the most cost effective solution.
 
[TW]Fox;26067243 said:
This is exactly my point.

Your used £20k TT would have belonged to you. Your car. Your asset. It will depreciate. Perhaps by as much as £10k. But its yours.

Your £20k over 4 years brand new TT isn't yours and unless you pay the hefty GFV at the end, you hand back.

So effectively then it will cost you TWICE as much surely? But you don't appear to have noticed because the monthly payments are lower :confused:

And my GF pays £560 a month to rent her new specced up TT TDI :(

Still working on her to get it back to them ASAP but she's happy with it as is. Women :rolleyes:
 
Seems people have very different opinions on if PCP deals are any good.

In my case it worked out great for me, because I was basing it on mainly the monthly payments and the fact that I'm almost certainly going to want to upgrade to the MK3 TT before the end of it!

I know that overall it still works out more money in the end, however I'm paying less money per month for a brand new car with the exact spec I wanted than the second hand options. When I was looking around for second hand ones I realised I would be paying more per month for a car older than i want, with more miles than I want, and not necessarily the spec I want. Then other things could have cropped up while owning the car such a mechatronic failure on the gearbox. Expensive to fix when not in warranty!
 
And my GF pays £560 a month to rent her new specced up TT TDI :(

Still working on her to get it back to them ASAP but she's happy with it as is. Women :rolleyes:
How long is that for? And is that a lease deal?

Seems a lot to me!

My TT Coupe 2.0TFSI Black Edition quattro S-Tronic with tech & Comfort packs is costing me £299 a month
 
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