Why should we accept and accommodate people being fat?

The problem with being fat is there can just as easily be an underlying mental health issue behind it.
The same can be said for alcoholics, chain smokers and drug users.

If people show no interest in fixing these problems (and yes, being fat IS a problem) then they shouldn't have the right to any sort of acceptance or accommodation such as health care. Why should it be any different to say, the dole? If people show no interest in getting a job and want free handouts instead they will (hopefully) be caught and have there benefits removed. If alcoholics don't want to stop drinking themselves to death, why should the NHS be there to help them through liver failure?
 
v0n said:
As for productivity, I'd be careful there. Obesity does not make person lazy in terms of mental abilities. Majority of office workers in western countries are overweight or obese.
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I'd have to disagree with you there, yes my view might be anecdotal, but in my work experience of 13 years I have come across 1000's of people in offices, I would class the number that are obese on one hand. And in my current office we hired one guy 6 months ago who I would class as obese and we just had to let him go due to poor performance. Everyone else in the office is either the correct weight and a few I would class as underweight. But they're seem to be far more capable in their jobs.

Also I repeat, how many obese serve you in restaurants or behind the counter in shops?
 
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As thin people also get quite a few of the problems that fat people get how do you determine if weight was actually a factor or they were just unlucky?

Type 2 diabetes would be one example, you do not have to be overweight to get it but being overweight increases your chances. So you cannot know that weight was the cause.
 
piggeh said:
How are you going to fund these 'shooting galleries'? I assume you'll tax heroin?
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From the savings we make on treating a medical problem as a criminal one?

piggeh said:
If so why don't we tax unhealthy food a bit more to pay for intervening treatments in the same way that you'd do so for drug users?
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First you would need to define what "unhealthy food" is, because there is next to no food that is specifically unhealthy. In fact pretty much any food is unhealthy in enough volume.

piggeh said:
Those that choose these lifestyles should pay for its ill effects so that it is not a financial burden on the general population.
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Is that all lifestyle choices or just the ones that you disagree with? Should those that do sports pay for sports injuries? Those that ride motorcycles pay for crash related injuries?

piggeh said:
At present they are a financial burden. I don't care if people want to be fat, as long as we don't have to pay for bariatric equipment, diabetic treatments, etc from the general population to support their personal choices.
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So no more universal healthcare, I assume you are no longer going to tax people that you are no longer going to allow to have medical treatment?
 
icehot said:
Pretty sure I said any other form of self harm ie self harm itself
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so why should a symptom of a non self inflicted condition not be covered by the nhs?



would you propose making cancer patients pay for their own anti emetics to deal with the side effects of chemo?
 
icehot said:
I'm sure this covers the tax burden.... /sarcasm
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yes it does, and makes a few billion profit every year.


interestingly once smoking is completely gone or banned we're going to have to make up about an extra 5-6 billion pounds more every year through general taxation, probably stick it on petrol.
 
From what I could quickly find taxes on all tobacco products raises around £10-12bn and direct costs to the NHS of smoking is £5bn.

Then you also have the indirect costs to the NHS that you can't easily measure, and other costs to society such as cigarettes starting fires. One document I found suggests the total cost to society of smoking could be as much as £14bn, more than the tax revenue.
 
although fat disgusts me (honestly, i couldnt do it with a big girl, all i can think is yuck) there is a slippery slope here and this isnt just a 'its your fault, no help' thing

people who smoke shouldnt get cancer treatment etc, only very sightly different
it should absolutely be discouraged and shouldnt be accommodated but cherry picking medical conditions for nhs treatment is dangerous if you want to keep the nhs

its actually quite difficult in my head, i want to say get off your arses and stop eating you fatties, but i know it isnt right, my views are wrong

as per the actual OP topic, i dont think it should be as taboo as racism etc but dont think its quite free game, people need to be made aware they are doing it wrong but without it being rubbed in their faces, but it shouldnt be accommodated for to the point of acceptance as normal

constructive repair not destructive despair
 
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AtreuS said:
I was 23 stone I am now 16.5 ( and still fat but not far to go now ) and I agree its better to make sure its a social stigma.

Accepting overeating is wrong, its a disease as far as I was concerned... I became so food oriented that I was not in control of myself. Society would have locked me up if it was self harm via cutting or attempted suicide but that's what I was doing, killing myself with eating.

I look back at what I used to eat in a "normal meal" and feel utter repulsion and disgust.... I used to put away a full special fried rice, a portion of soft noodles, a portion of chips, a portion of spring rolls... dim sum and prawn crackers AND a good helping of cheese cake with coke.... sometimes 3 times a week! I cant even eat a whole special fried rice now if I tried.

Its an illness... an addiction.. and should be treated as such in my opinion.
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So I just thought I would update the thread, not really sure why but I suppose it is a way of keeping track of my loss. Since I posted I have joined a gym and also joined Slimming World with a couple of people from work. I had set myself a number of targets and the first one was to lose 10% of my weight.

I have also started seeing the girlfriend again and have spent a lot of time talking about what went wrong and what we want to change to make it work. At the moment we are going to take it slowly and start again. So far it has been awesome.

Weigh in day is a Thursday night, I wasn't really too sure what to expect but tonight has been one of the big milestones. Before I started I was 23 stone and 1lb. Tonight I am 19 stone 7.5lbs :) I am actually the lightest I have been since I went to university a long long time ago.

Still a long way to go but I have lost over 10% of my weight so far and it feels really really good. I have so much more energy and feel so much lighter on my feet. I really don't miss my old lifestyle! I can see it getting expensive now as my old wardrobe just hangs off me. I have started to sort through it all, I will be keeping one of two things and if I ever get a moment of weakness I can try on the clothes to show myself how far I have gone. There is no turning back now.

I should hopefully be ordering my first treat from OcUK tomorrow, ScottiB has been very patient in answering a lot of question and has gone out of his way to provide an excellent service. So excited :p
 
Phantom Shadow said:
Cars are not necessary and have negative side effects, and are hence taxed to reduce use; similar to cigarettes.
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ROFL

Consider the two following "Thought experiments"!

#1 Everybody who smokes stops smoking for a week!

#2 Everybody who drives a privately owned car refuses to drive for a week!

What would happen??

#1.... Pretty well nothing

#2.....By Tuesday all the shops would have run out of food, By Wednesday the power-stations would start shutting down! By Thursday.....! Well you get the point! :D

The idea that Cars are somehow "unnecessary" is a nonsense!

(The fact that, over the last 50 years or so, they have become "essential" is perhaps worrying, but that is a different issue!)
 
Let people live their own lives, i have a cousin who is 17 and weights between 17-18 stone. There is so many times me and my family can tell him he is killing himself and will most likely have diabetes as it runs in his family from his dad who is also a fat ****

The problem is the parents why kids tend to grow up fat, his parents are divorced so he probably doesn't listen to his mum most of the time. If i had a kid that was over weight i would be ashamed of myself for letting him/her get so big.

Parents have to take responsibility and do something about it imo.
 
Good going just keep it up.

Myself i am actually now 17.5 stone!.... but i didnt go back to eating a lot i joined a gym and now lift!.

I am in the process of leaving humanity behind and becoming a hulk :D
 
Tuppy_Glossop said:
I would. In fact, and this is a touch controversial, I'd be giving out free heroin to users so they don't have to steal. They can take it in safe 'shooting galleries' and get all the info and help they want but don't have to pay for their drugs. It is very cheap to produce, we buy it from Afghan farmers, they're happy - one up the taleban, then we give it to addicts, one up the dealers. Plus fewer house burglaries etc.

The only qualm is whether we accept it as a lifestyle choice. Which I do. Let evolution sort it out... *hides behind keyboard*
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Sorry to dispel a Western Myth but the Taliban when in control of Afghanistan reduced the Opium production down to less than 10% I think it was but as soon as the Yanks took over Afghanistan the production rose to over 80% & they are now the biggest suppliers of opium in the World.
The Taliban did more to fight Global Addiction than all the Western countrys did/do put together. :p
 
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