whats the deal with this boycott firefox over the CEO gay rights stance

Am I missing something? The Mozilla Foundation don't mention equality or diversity anywhere in their manifesto. It doesn't appear to have been a major consideration when they established their business.

Of course all companies declare somewhere that they are all in favour of equality, since they believe it is good business. Profit making companies rarely espouse controversial opinions.

This doesn't mean they actually care about it...

It would seem that many Mozilla customers consider there to have been an implied equality and diversity manifesto, due to the nature and marketing of the foundation.

Since Mozilla benefits from this "marketing" (as many businesses do with their own implied values), they would do well to consider it when making appointments, for business reasons, don't you think?

They made an error, I'm sure they won't make it again. And they now know a little more about why people use their products.
 
You seem to be bundling freedom of speech with freedom from the consequences of that speech.

Actually, no. The latter contradicts the former. One cannot truly speak freely if one has to be mindful of the consequences. This is fine in principle but the manner in which the consequences are decided is often dubious at best, whether the person speaking is in the "right" or "wrong".

Nobody is forcing them to keep quiet, just now some people may begin to accept that others may not want to do business with organisations headed by people they consider bigoted.

Making an example of someone for speaking is likely to make others think twice before speaking, no? Once again, the person speaking could be in the right or wrong, the principle is the same.

I don't purchase goods or services from known tax avoiders or organisations which score poorly based on local & environmental impact (ethical business index), this is no different really.

Well it is a little because the examples you give imply an ongoing, negative impact, which is lacking from the story in the OP. At best he continued to actively support anti-gay legislation but we are unaware of it. At worst, he no longer believes that way but does not feel the need to justify himself to the baying mob. Although I imagine the truth is somewhere in between.

There is also the matter of the extra step of singling him out and demanding he step down, whilst doing so publicly. Seeking to force a person to step down for past "misdeads", if applied to those of more limited means, has the potential to destroy livelihoods.

Nobody is saying you can't believe that, just that others may challenge that belief if & if you pushed them while being the head of a large organisation you should expect some media fallout (which may result in you getting pushed out the door).

And yet if he had used more discreet methods to drum up support (which he may well have done as well), then voted without declaring it publicly, he would have gotten away with it. He is not so much being punished for his views as his indiscretion.

You are free to believe that marriage should be between just a man & a women - but you are not free to project that view onto the lives of others & expect them to conform to it.

Personally, I don't care what people think - I care what they do.

You are indeed free to think what you like, but you are not free to do what you like (deny equal rights to others in this case).

Actually, as long as you do it within the established and legal system for creating, changing and abolishing legislation, you are most definitely free to do just that. Indeed, judging by the narrow margin that Prop8 passed by, a little over 50% of people voting did just that. The fact that another part of that system later struck it down is beside the point.

But it is worth bearing in mind what actually happened here. A person is not being accused of sending the boyz round to gay weddings, in order to lynch the attendees. He is not even accused of making homophobic comments in public. He simply exercised his legal right to participate in the debate between two sides on contentious issue, but happened to choose what a sufficiently vocal minority (and many other who do not care enough to act against him) hold to be the wrong side. Edit: Not to suggest that only a minority would disagree with him but it is the vocal minority who acted, therefore the rest are not so relevant here.
 
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Most people don't care about mozilla's employee opinions on same sex marriage (although the group think would have you believe otherwise). But now that the ceo was attacked publicly for his views, Mozilla is forced in to the position where they have to get him to resign to save face. Most Mozilla staff and their organisation as a whole end of day have more respect for people's individual opinions than the people that are asking for him to be fired.

Soon as they use the word open gays think it has something to do with them. Open source has nothing to do with equality or homosexuality.

In the context of Mozilla foundation manifesto on openness, i don't think they were referring to sexual openness.
 
It would seem that many Mozilla customers consider there to have been an implied equality and diversity manifesto, due to the nature and marketing of the foundation.

Since Mozilla benefits from this "marketing" (as many businesses do with their own implied values), they would do well to consider it when making appointments, for business reasons, don't you think?

They made an error, I'm sure they won't make it again. And they now know a little more about why people use their products.

Do they care, or is this just a media storm kicked up by the usual lobby groups?
 
You are tied to a company if you are in work or not. And as such have to keep out of the public eye in many thoughts.

If it was someone lower down in the company brining the company in to disrepute he would have been sacked.
 
Most people don't care about mozilla's employee opinions on same sex marriage (although the group think would have you believe otherwise). But now that the ceo was attacked publicly for his views, Mozilla is forced in to the position where they have to get him to resign to save face. Most Mozilla staff and their organisation as a whole end of day have more respect for people's individual opinions than the people that are asking for him to be fired.

Soon as they use the word open gays think it has something to do with them. Open source has nothing to do with equality or homosexuality.

In the context of Mozilla foundation manifesto on openness, i don't think they were referring to sexual openness.
You assume everyone is like yourself.

"Mozilla prides itself on being held to a different standard and, this past week, we didn't live up to it. We know why people are hurt and angry, and they are right: it's because we haven't stayed true to ourselves," the company said in a blog post. "We didn't act like you'd expect Mozilla to act. We didn't move fast enough to engage with people once the controversy started. We're sorry. We must do better."
Doesn't sound like saving face to me.
http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/3/55...ns-amid-controversy-over-donation-to-anti-gay
 
Plenty of people in this thread care. I'm sure we're not unique in GD

It's the special sort of "caring" you only find when people have an audience.

Tell racist, homophobic jokes all day long at work. Pretend to be disgusted on Facebook about Putin or the EDL.

Never really gave a monkey's about gay marriage rights, avoid gays when you can. Assume a self-righteous position when someone in the public eye feels the same.

My experience of the average person. You're probably right in that GD isn't much different.
 
Attacking bigotry is never wrong. Homosexual marriage has absolutely no impact on anyone apart from those who are offended by the idea of two people of the same sex loving each other. Be offended. But don't dare try and deny people the same rights you have just because they're gay. Because that's just plain old bigoted hatred and homophobia. And if you're donating to an organisation that's promoting bigoted politics, expect to be held to account for it. It wasn't too long ago blacks couldn't marry whites in the US because of racist and ignorant bigoted hatred from folks that called themselves "god fearing christians".

You know what, put like that i completely agree with you. Thankyou for putting it in those terms.
 
It's the special sort of "caring" you only find when people have an audience.

Tell racist, homophobic jokes all day long at work. Pretend to be disgusted on Facebook about Putin or the EDL.

Never really gave a monkey's about gay marriage rights, avoid gays when you can. Assume a self-righteous position when someone in the public eye feels the same.

My experience of the average person. You're probably right in that GD isn't much different.

Speak for yourself, I don't tell racist or homophobic jokes and don't engage with people that do.
 
You assume everyone is like yourself.


Doesn't sound like saving face to me.
http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/3/55...ns-amid-controversy-over-donation-to-anti-gay

No i don't, that is exactly what the group think brigade had done and Ive already point that out.

What do you mean it doesn't look like they are saving face? The point was that they didn't care when they appointed him to the position and they still don't care now, the only reason they have fired him because of PR reasons. Which we would all agree is the result of the group think hysteria kicked up on twitter and okcupid by LGBT pro gay marriage advocates.

Why do the gays care anyway, they are boycotting firefox and should use a gay friendly browser if that makes them happy. I am disappointed because the browser that i use just lost a great ceo, the guy who invented JavaScript and over something so insignificant and pitiful.

If anyone has lost out here it is the users of firefox and what did the gays gain, absolutely nothing.
 
No i don't, that is exactly what the group think brigade had done and Ive already point that out.

What do you mean it doesn't look like they are saving face? The point was that they didn't care when they appointed him to the position and they still don't care now, the only reason they have fired him because of PR reasons. Which we would all agree is the result of the group think hysteria kicked up on twitter and okcupid by LGBT pro gay marriage advocates.

Why do the gays care anyway, they are boycotting firefox and should use a gay friendly browser if that makes them happy. I am disappointed because the browser that i use just lost a great ceo, the guy who invented JavaScript and over something so insignificant.

If anyone has lost out here it is the users of firefox and what did the gays gain, absolutely nothing.

You are assuming they even knew that he donated to Prop8, had they known they may not have hired him, they interviewed 24 other people as well.

Why do you also assume that is all the gays rallying to boycott him, I'm not gay and I think it's right he had to step down.
 
You are assuming they even knew that he donated to Prop8, had they known they may not have hired him, they interviewed 24 other people as well.

Why do you also assume that is all the gays rallying to boycott him, I'm not gay and I think it's right he had to step down.

I never said it was only gays? Of course its obviously largely gays that are behind it. Unless you are claiming that gays had nothing to do with it?

I don't think assuming that either of us are assuming teh extreme is the correct way to look at this.
 
I never said it was only gays? Of course its obviously largely gays that are behind it. Unless you are claiming that gays had nothing to do with it?

I don't think assuming that either of us are assuming teh extreme is the correct way to look at this.

Fair enough, it's just the way you word your posts make it look like you are blaming everything on the gays, I'd wager that a good number of people in here that are arguing for gay rights aren't actually gay.
 
I don't think free speech as you put it above has ever existed.

True. Which is kind of what I am trying to say, even if I am not doing so with sufficient clarity.

Both sides in this are exercising freedom of speech and expression but both are doing so in contradiction of the other. Clearly then, the ideal is a balanced situation where freedom of speech is used responsibly. Should such a thing ever actually happen, the universe would probably encounter a BSOD and reboot.

But my opinion is that making a public example of somebody for (seemingly) doing nothing more than exercising their legal rights as part of a democratic process, this is a worse abuse of freedom of speech than being on the wrong side when exercising the afore mentioned legal right.
 
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