Young people feel robbed of a better life but they don't know what to do about it

[Haggisman]

I'm actually asking;
If a whole swathe of the young of society is being failed during their upbringing by their useless parents, is it fair that society further beats them down by pinning it all on those very same young people?

You say yourself;

So what if parents don't teach that? Many don't.
What do you think happens then? If it's down to upbringing, what if upbringing fails?

Should we not do more as a society to intervene with education and opportunity, rather than reaffirm that those youths are simply undeserving?

Surely that just exacerbates the situation though? Taking away responsibility and make "failure"** acceptable is at least in part to blame for the way things are at the moment.

Don't want to behave in class? That's ok, it couldn't possibly be because you're disobedient and disrespectful, you must have <insert condition* here>. It's not your fault. Here you go, have a specialist tutor and rewards for when you do actually behave yourself.

Got poor exam results? That's ok, it couldn't possibly be because you spent all year playing video games instead of studying, the exam must have been too hard/teacher wasn't good enough/<insert reason here>. It's not your fault. Here you go, have some worthless qualifications instead to make you feel better.

Can't get a job? That's ok, there are too many immigrants, there's no demand for your skillset, no one is willing to give you a chance. It's not your fault. Here you go, have some "JSA" for sitting on your **** doing nothing all day.*

If you want a better life and a better future, stop expecting other people to provide it, it takes personal effort, so get out there and take the opportunities you're given.

*I realise some of these scenarios are generalisations, and in some cases they are legitimate excuses, but far too often I've seen people absolve themselves of all responsibility, and then are surprised when they don't get any payoff.

**By failure, I don't mean trying your hardest, failing and learning from your mistakes (which is to be commended), but rather, failing to try in the first place, or trying to fail.

 

[Muffin`]

2. Housing is too expensive and prices are increasing too rapidly. Massive deposits are needed, and the amounts involved are often growing as quick (or quicker) than people can save. There's also a feeling that we are being ripped off by the current house prices, which only really benefit downsizers, the 'Buy to Let' brigade, investors and the banks (higher house prices means larger mortgages and more interest).

The second is an issue that the government should be moving to fix, but with the property boom propping up the economy and a general election looming, they won't take the risk.

If houses are too expensive then wouldn't prices be falling? Also why do banks continue to give out mortgages? The money for mortgages is there and people are still coming up with the deposits so won't it just continue to grow?

 

[cheesyboy]

How can you spend your first couple of posts espousing stuff like this;

It's all about your upbringing. If your parents taught you to work hard, you do it and will do well. If your parents didn't bother then statistically, you probably won't either.

...and then completely fail to show any empathy with those whose upbringing has failed?

I'm just not sure what you're suggesting society/the government does for people who can't be bothered to find a job and blames society for their problems.

It's all about your upbringing, remember?

Extra resources should be allocated towards targeting the offspring of useless parents. Break the generation to generation cycle of failure.

 

[Johnnytoxic]

With the amount of knowledge on the Internet, you can make your own opportunities.

 

[randomshenans]

It's the **** attitude of most of the people in Britain today. We're owed a life. I should have this, I should have that. You get used to an easy life, you grow to expect ****. Take it away or make you have to work for it and then you moan like hell. Moan, moan, moan.

Course they don't know what to do about it, that would involve them getting off their arses and doing something rather than just spouting their disdain for it on the internet/world.

Have them live through world war 2 or some ****, that'll teach them, rather than them not being able to afford the latest sodding Xbox or some such BS.

 

[Woden]

I really cant blame the ones 10 years or so younger than me for being demoralised.

My parents went to uni for free, I could have gone for rather cheaply. But now? Uni is so expensive they will be paying for it for the rest of their working lives.

Not only that but after having it drilled in to them all their lives that they need college/uni to stay away from stacking shelves or flipping burgers ... but those are basically the only jobs available to them.

Add to that, they will have higher taxes, and cutbacks in services to pay for budget decisions made long before they were born, let alone able to vote.

 

[cheesyboy]

Surely that just exacerbates the situation though? Taking away responsibility and make "failure"** acceptable is at least in part to blame for the way things are at the moment.

The whole point is to get across the message that failure isn't good enough. Part of the problem for the lower classes' young is a massive limitation of scope and confidence (confidence to achieve).

They don't get provided with the opportunity to succeed, because they aren't given the tools to do so.

As a society we need to reject the idea that these failures are acceptable and stop making excuses for failure for ourselves (as society). It's not good enough that we are so wealthy as a country and yet fail so many of our most vulnerable young.

Blaming the individuals is just an excuse. More can and should be done. It would benefit everyone in the medium and long term.

 

[randomshenans]

You can't suceed without failures.

 

[cheesyboy]

You can't suceed without failures.

Yeah, thanks for the contribution Confucius

 

[randomshenans]

I'm just disagreeing with you, bell-cheese.

Society needs to get away from the boolean fail yes/no and realise that it's OK to be wrong, it's OK to make mistakes but it's the bouncebackability which the people don't have. Too easy to give up. Tried, didn't work. There are more opportunities now to make something of your life than there ever has been. It's just about the willingness to actually do it.

The problem also is that our education system is geared towards just that. PASS/FAIL but that's not how people learn, or what is required of most people to get something out of life. Technologies have moved on at a faster rate in our generation that ever have done in the past generations but has education moved with that? No, they don't. We are starting kids in education, educating the same **** we did 10+ years ago when VHS was still being used. If we reformed our education process and engaged young people we might see a different attitude.

 

[Kemik]

How can you spend your first couple of posts espousing stuff like this;


...and then completely fail to show any empathy with those whose upbringing has failed?



It's all about your upbringing, remember?

Extra resources should be allocated towards targeting the offspring of useless parents. Break the generation to generation cycle of failure.

I suppose because if your parents fail in their responsibilities, the school system tends to pick up the slack. Schools are limited in their ability where the student continues to not be bothered but it comes a time where you have to question, you have been given the opportunity to apply yourself at school. You make the decision not to. If you don't have the motivation because you feel like you don't have the ability to pass exams (even if you do), then schools point out other options like the military, apprenticeships, etc. If you still feel like you won't succeed in obtaining something like that then what would you (cheesyboy) want to do for those people?

At this point they will be 18 years old. They have a head on their shoulders. They (a small proportion of the workforce) lack motivation and are cruising by on the dole. They're blaming the rich and the government for their predicament.... but they're 18. They've had numerous opportunities to apply themselves and numerous sets of people have said "you can do this". The job centre will have shown them jobs they can apply themselves to. They choose not to apply themselves by this point.

What would you have society do for those individuals?

To be honest, I'm getting bored of the "poor" being given money hand over fist for various schemes. How about giving some of that money to my parents who want to actually work. My dad worked six days a week, 7am to 5.30pm. When he lost his job after 20+ years and had to go on the dole he got a lot less than career dole-ies and had to pay it back when he went self employed!

I put poor in "" because I'm referring to those who choose not to work rather than those working their bum off for very little.

 

[cheesyboy]

I'm just disagreeing with you, bell-cheese.

Society needs to get away from the boolean fail yes/no and realise that it's OK to be wrong, it's OK to make mistakes but it's the bouncebackability which the people don't have. Too easy to give up. Tried, didn't work. There are more opportunities now to make something of your life than there ever has been. It's just about the willingness to actually do it.

The problem also is that our education system is geared towards just that. PASS/FAIL but that's not how people learn, or what is required of most people to get something out of life. Technologies have moved on at a faster rate in our generation that ever have done in the past generations but has education moved with that? No, they don't. We are starting kids in education, educating the same **** we did 10+ years ago when VHS was still being used. If we reformed our education process and engaged young people we might see a different attitude.

I'm not sure you're disagreeing with me at all. Education is the key, and it's failing a great portion of society.

Some children need more resources allocated to them because they don't have the appropriate familial support. It's not a vote winner because everyone else has such a "what about me" attitude about it, and also prefers to blame the individuals themselves for being a failure.

 

[randomshenans]

In that case I do agree 100%, but then the failure also has to fall with the parents, too.

I do agree 100% with what you said above though.

 

[D.P.]

I'm actually asking;
If a whole swathe of the young of society is being failed during their upbringing by their useless parents, is it fair that society further beats them down by pinning it all on those very same young people?

You say yourself;

So what if parents don't teach that? Many don't.
What do you think happens then? If it's down to upbringing, what if upbringing fails?

Should we not do more as a society to intervene with education and opportunity, rather than reaffirm that those youths are simply undeserving?

So what is your actual solution? Test potential parent's suitability and license births to responsible couples? Make it illegal for children to watch too much TV instead of doing more homework?
The fact of the matter is there are bad parents out there and there is very little society or the government can do about it. There is already a lot of support and options for everyone from any background. If children dont take school seriously or don't develop a work hard attitude there is nothing anyone else can do for them.

I'm all for increasing the eduction budget and make more resources available but there is actually not that much more that can be done and making resources available doesn't necessarily resolve things. Higher education is free in Scotland and there are many financial aids in terms of grants and loans available that mitigate any financial issues with getting a degree but that hasn't motivated many of those that just don't have the right attitude.

 

[cheesyboy]

In that case I do agree 100%, but then the failure also has to fall with the parents, too.

I do agree 100% with what you said above though.

It's a failing of the parents, of course. But that's a bit of a dead end because there's no obvious way of intervening (though the government did trial some parenting classes in the north east recently - depressingly low take-up).

We can blame them, but it's not especially productive - perhaps even counter-productive (encouraging good practice is likely to get more improvement than further entrenching their idiocy by demonising the bad)

 

[abbotsmike]

I come from a working class background. Dad's a Mechanic, Mum's a childminder. Family has always had enough money to live on, never had an excess though.

I'm feeling pretty positive about the future. I have 4 exams to do next month, and then assuming I get my grades, in June I start in an engineering role, above the national average salary, and into an industry where there's currently a shortage of labour. Because I've made opportunities and had jobs since I was twelve, I own a nice car and other nice things. I have enough in savings that another years of hard saving will put me in the position to look at house buying with my girlfriend.

A lot of the people that don't have a positive outlook (IME) are just lazy. I know of several top level graduates (1st/2.1 degrees) in good subjects from good unis (maths from warwick being one off the top of my head) that don't have jobs because they "can't face getting up and going to work every day"... Says it all really...

 

[cheesyboy]

Some children need more resources allocated to them because they don't have the appropriate familial support. It's not a vote winner because everyone else has such a "what about me" attitude about it

To be honest, I'm getting bored of the "poor" being given money hand over fist for various schemes. How about giving some of that money to my parents who want to actually work. My dad worked six days a week, 7am to 5.30pm. When he lost his job after 20+ years and had to go on the dole he got a lot less than career dole-ies and had to pay it back when he went self employed!

 

[Haggisman]

I'm not sure you're disagreeing with me at all. Education is the key, and it's failing a great portion of society.

Some children need more resources allocated to them because they don't have the appropriate familial support. It's not a vote winner because everyone else has such a "what about me" attitude about it, and also prefers to blame the individuals themselves for being a failure.

The thing is, at some point it is an individual's "fault".

Ok, so this generation's failure is down to their parents. Who's to blame for their failure?

 

[flibbage0]

As someone who is 20, I don't consider myself robbed of a better life.

The world is more competitive than it was 10 years ago.

For example the profession that I'm going into and that some of my friends are going into used to have guaranteed jobs at the end and were quite well paid.

That just isn't the case any longer.

However all you have to do is just to go the extra mile to get that job, everything requires slightly more effort but it can still be done.

I just get annoyed in the way this country has such an emphasis on finance whilst engineers and scientists aren't as well respected as in other countries such as France or Germany.

 

[abbotsmike]

I just get annoyed in the way this country has such an emphasis on finance whilst engineers and scientists aren't as well respected as in other countries such as France or Germany.

Are you dissing the waste management engineers?!

It can get annoying, but it's still possible to earn good money as a (proper) engineer, so I don't get too cut up about it!