Vegetarianism: what if we didn't eat meat

ocmanus · 12 May 2014 at 17:53

Jon123456 said:
I think there are two important arguments to consider:

1. If we did not eat meat, the vast majority of these animals would never have experienced the gift of life in the first place. i.e. they would have been deprived of the opportunity. Are the vegetarians saying they would have preferred that the (eaten) animal would have been better off by having no life in the first place?

2. More animals are killed in the creation of many vegetables than in the creation of meat. For example, a combine harvester kills countless mice, snakes, insects and small mammals, as it hacks through acres of wheat.

CaptainComedy · 12 May 2014 at 17:56

I fully expect to be eaten as a chicken in my next life. and I will be tasty to whomever is lucky enough to eat me, maybe I have already eaten that person? maybe I've eaten you in a past life? Would that bother you?

I don't want to limit my life to "ok" would you rather a life of bland and unexciting, or a life full of adventure?

Why do people jump off a plane with just a shoot, when there is a 3 foot ledge closer to home?

I am happy trying different things because I can, if I couldn't I wouldn't, that's the experience of life. Chickens eat worms, but can easily have the birdseed the farmer gives them.... why not put the question to them? because they don't want to live off birdseed for the rest of their life.

TommyV · 12 May 2014 at 17:57

Mrs Seabiscuit said:
STEAK! NICE JUICY STEAK mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Damn it, about to pop into the supermarket for my evening meals this week, looks like steak will be on the menu....more than once

Jon123456 · 12 May 2014 at 18:03

Glaucus said:
What utter utter nonsense. The vast majority of animals are mass produced and thus grain fee, even those that aren't are still grass fed in the winter, so that statement is utterly retarded.

Does anyone know what this guy is going on about? It doesn't even make sense in relation to what I said.

Elixir · 12 May 2014 at 18:03

Jon123456 said:
2. More animals are killed in the creation of many vegetables than in the creation of meat. For example, a combine harvester kills countless mice, snakes, insects and small mammals, as it hacks through acres of wheat.

Not sure if serious.

Glaucus · 12 May 2014 at 18:04

Jon123456 said:
Does anyone know what this guy is going on about? It doesn't even make sense in relation to what I said.

It has everything to do with what you said and what you said is utter nonsense? It makes perfect sense.

Jon123456 · 12 May 2014 at 18:07

Explain how. In any given field, there are far more small mammals like mice etc. than there are cows, for example.

Stokesy · 12 May 2014 at 18:07

Jon123456 said:
1. If we did not eat meat, the vast majority of these animals would never have experienced the gift of life in the first place. i.e. they would have been deprived of the opportunity. Are the vegetarians saying they would have preferred that the (eaten) animal would have been better off by having no life in the first place?

In the case of battery chickens and other animals that live in factory farms I would say yes. Give me a choice between living in a cramped cage and not existing and I'll take the latter.

I'm a meat eater by the way.

Glaucus · 12 May 2014 at 18:09

Jon123456 said:
Explain how. In any given field, there are far more small mammals like mice etc. than there are cows, for example.

And what do you think feeds animals?
Grains cut down by combine harvesters and made into feed.

Not only that but you need far more fields of grain to be made into animal feed, than for humans, due to massive inefficiency losses growing animals.

So yes what you said is utter nonsense and also shows you are clueless of how animals are raised. It's exactly these things, along with finance etc, that should be taught in general studies, not the utterly pointless stuff we did. It should be all the non academic, but life essential stuff rolled into a mandatory lesson.

4T5 · 12 May 2014 at 18:10

Vegetarians. Stop eating my foods food !!! :mad:

Jokester · 12 May 2014 at 18:15

I would personally have the world's population limited to 10 billion people by everyone eating meat, than limited to 50 billion by eating vegetables and the ensuing environmental disaster caused by trying to support that population in other ways like water consumption, power consumption and other non-renewable resource consumption.

Glaucus · 12 May 2014 at 18:17

Jokester said:
I would personally have the world's population limited to 10 billion people by everyone eating meat, than limited to 50 billion by eating vegetables and the ensuing environmental disaster caused by trying to support that population in other ways like water consumption, power consumption and other non-renewable resource consumption.

That's good, as all our predictions come at population maxing at 11billion before falling. And most of them are in the 8-9billion.

As people get wealthier and more educated, birthrates fall.

ChroniC · 12 May 2014 at 18:22

The problem's I have personal encountered with being vegetarian, is if you don't have a really well planned out diet, you tend to lack a lot of essential minerals and vitamins.
I would appear the human body isn't as good as animals are making them ourselves and missing out on them in our diet always, as my previous and current gf are proving. (I know I seem to attract them lol)
Both have been constantly tired on occasion and have had numerous visits to the doctors with both being put on Iron tablets.

I have seen doctors notes that didn't even bother to check for anything else, they just hear vegetarian and send them for blood tests instantly.

I don't think it's healthy if your lazy.

Art · 12 May 2014 at 18:27

ChroniC said:
I don't think it's healthy if your lazy.

Not much is to be honest. There's a guy called Scott Jurek who wins Ultramarathons (50/100+ mile running races) on a vegan diet. I've no idea how he manages it, but just goes to show that if you put the effort in there's not a lot stopping you from living life on a meat-free diet.

I've cut the meat that I eat down by about half, but wouldn't want to go much further. I'd definitely miss it if I cut it out altogether.

Zethor · 12 May 2014 at 18:36

Art said:
Not much is to be honest. There's a guy called Scott Jurek who wins Ultramarathons (50/100+ mile running races) on a vegan diet. I've no idea how he manages it, but just goes to show that if you put the effort in there's not a lot stopping you from living life on a meat-free diet.

I've cut the meat that I eat down by about half, but wouldn't want to go much further. I'd definitely miss it if I cut it out altogether.

Meat is mostly protein, which isn't vital for effort. Plants are mostly carbohydrates, which are vital for effort. That's how he does it.

Kishywish · 12 May 2014 at 18:37

Eat the meat to save the species, I say. Why else would anyone keep chickens?

Jon123456 · 12 May 2014 at 18:40

Glaucus said:
And what do you think feeds animals?
Grains cut down by combine harvesters and made into feed.

Not only that but you need far more fields of grain to be made into animal feed, than for humans, due to massive inefficiency losses growing animals.

So yes what you said is utter nonsense and also shows you are clueless of how animals are raised. It's exactly these things, along with finance etc, that should be taught in general studies, not the utterly pointless stuff we did. It should be all the non academic, but life essential stuff rolled into a mandatory lesson.

Before spouting off so loudly, I think you need to read a little more widely. Why not read about the research of a scientist who says 25 times more animals are killed for the same amount of protein as raising beef, in Australia. http://theconversation.com/ordering-the-vegetarian-meal-theres-more-animal-blood-on-your-hands-4659

You seem to claim that you know everything about raising animals and I don't. Clearly, you are deluding yourself and everyone else here.

Jon123456 · 12 May 2014 at 18:42

Kishywish said:
Eat the meat to save the species, I say. Why else would anyone keep chickens?

Eat meat. Be nice to animals.

Amp34 · 12 May 2014 at 18:45

Jokester said:
I would personally have the world's population limited to 10 billion people by everyone eating meat, than limited to 50 billion by eating vegetables and the ensuing environmental disaster caused by trying to support that population in other ways like water consumption, power consumption and other non-renewable resource consumption.

10 billion...?

No matter if they all eat meat or not that would be an environmental disaster. Feeding 7 billion people is causing an environmental disaster and half of them aren't getting enough food. If we want western standards of living for everyone and not continue the natural and environmental disaster we are currently creating our population needs to reduce to 3 billion or less IMO.

We alre already chopping down huge swathes of forest around the world and causing desertification in many other places, not to mention the plundering of the seas (with stocks plummeting by 90% in most areas) and filing up the rest with polluted surface runoff... That's trying (unsuccessfully) to feed 7 billion as already mentioned.

Efour · 12 May 2014 at 18:48

This topic again?

Human beings will stop eating meat "everyday" in the next 50 years..