What a despicable and disgusting view point you have.
Woman facing death in Sudan for Apostasy
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What a despicable and disgusting view point you have.
Caporegime
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Care to explain how you can be born a Muslim? I thought we were all created equal with free will. I dislike baptism, circumcision etc alll designed to indoctrinate from a time when a child could not possibly choose to understand god or scriptures.
I've got a problem with killing someone over their beliefs and I've got a problem with the death penalty in general. Pointing at another law which might have been on the books until a few years ago and not actually enforced (none of Princess Diana's lovers were executed or even charged) doesn't add anything. You might see someone leaving your religion as treasonous but that is part of the problem with religion - trying to enforce certain behaviour on people who don't believe.
I don't see it as being much better... you disagree with this case because they've used a rather broad definition but you're ok with it in some much more specific situations... presumably involving an adult male who's been vocal about it and been given a chance to recant his apostasy etc...
An apostate only has to stop becoming a muslim once surely.
What do we expect from a Shia? - These are the same sort of 'muslims' who whip and punish themselves because of something that happened centuries ago 
It's simple - look to the Qu'ran and Sunnah (Life of the Prophet Muhammad) if you really want to learn about the true Islam. Unfortunately even these so called 'muslim' countries seem to overlook the basic concept of educating oneself (as much as it is emphasised in Islam too!) - but then again these are third world countries we are talking about!
If people actually took the time out to learn they would know that the Apostacy laws were put in place to deter the people who used to make a mockery out of Islam, and one day say they were muslims and the next a different religion. They used to mock Islam by claiming to be muslim one minute then changing the next depending upon the context they were in. In effect they were influencing people to take it as a joke and not seriously.
No-one is forced to become a muslim (or shouldn't be) what they should know however is that Islam isn't a pee take and should be taken seriously - The Apostacy law is highly debated within muslim circles but its pretty clear it was one of them laws that were very rarely enforced but was there to set an example (just like death for commiting rape).
Basic gist is to look at what the Qu'ran says as that is undisputed whereas Hadith is often disputed:
http://quran.com/2/256
What Boko Haram or whatever group choose to do (especially oppressing females which in my eyes is a despicable act) is contradictory to what Islam actually teaches.
What surprises me though is that when a muslim fundie does something - its all over the news - warrants a 20 page thread on OCuk yet when others of different religions do something its just like yeah whateva.
Hypocritical much? - anyway's this thread is only here to appease the usual bashers, if its not halal food today, its another excuse tomorrow just to have a go at the 'muzzies' - typical GD rubbish tbh.
It's simple - look to the Qu'ran and Sunnah (Life of the Prophet Muhammad) if you really want to learn about the true Islam. Unfortunately even these so called 'muslim' countries seem to overlook the basic concept of educating oneself (as much as it is emphasised in Islam too!) - but then again these are third world countries we are talking about!
If people actually took the time out to learn they would know that the Apostacy laws were put in place to deter the people who used to make a mockery out of Islam, and one day say they were muslims and the next a different religion. They used to mock Islam by claiming to be muslim one minute then changing the next depending upon the context they were in. In effect they were influencing people to take it as a joke and not seriously.
No-one is forced to become a muslim (or shouldn't be) what they should know however is that Islam isn't a pee take and should be taken seriously - The Apostacy law is highly debated within muslim circles but its pretty clear it was one of them laws that were very rarely enforced but was there to set an example (just like death for commiting rape).
Basic gist is to look at what the Qu'ran says as that is undisputed whereas Hadith is often disputed:
http://quran.com/2/256
What Boko Haram or whatever group choose to do (especially oppressing females which in my eyes is a despicable act) is contradictory to what Islam actually teaches.
What surprises me though is that when a muslim fundie does something - its all over the news - warrants a 20 page thread on OCuk yet when others of different religions do something its just like yeah whateva.
Hypocritical much? - anyway's this thread is only here to appease the usual bashers, if its not halal food today, its another excuse tomorrow just to have a go at the 'muzzies' - typical GD rubbish tbh.
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Yusuf Estes covers it quite well here - its a complicated subject:
http://islamnewsroom.com/if-someone-leaves-islam-hot-topics-45
Caporegime
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What part is hypocritical though. What states led by religion are say for example stoning people for being raped under the auspices of adultery? How many countries have laws that aim to imprison or put to death those with the determination to leave a religion they were probably forced into?
The reason we care so much is because we have a growing population from countries like pakistan
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1571970/Muslim-apostates-threatened-over-Christianity.html
Unfortunately the islam we are presented is in as the link alludes to, many muslims are loyal to their religion which can serve to dehumanise them and remove a human quality known as compassion.
http://quran.com/4/89
http://quran.com/4/89
Even if it's not being interpreted correctly, it's not too hard to see where the idea comes from.
Perfect examples of how quickly quranic verses are taken out of context. I've only just started to learn the quran and one thing I have quickly come to realise is that CONTEXT is everything. You have to understand what was going on at the time them verses were revealed and it all becomes clear.
This to me is what makes the Quran unique compared to other religions scriptures - it has CONTEXT in the form of the Sunnah (Documented evidence of the Life of the prophet).
I wonder if either of you actually bothered to read the link I placed above or quickly dismissed it - it gives a clear understanding of how complex rulings like apostacy law actually are.
Here it is again before you try to change the subject:
http://islamnewsroom.com/if-someone-leaves-islam-hot-topics-45
I'm pretty sure anyone with a basic understanding of human life knows that people often change things to fit their own twisted interpretations - you can accept that for all walks of life - why not for muslims? Is there a bias you have that is clearly clouding the fact that muslims can be mistaken?
Seems to me that you do - it's funny, every 'Muslamic' thread on here is the same - starts off about one thing then ends up discussing anything any everything about Islam - same people spouting the same hate.
Quicker you guys learn that theres good and bad muslims just like good and bad aethiests / christians / >insert any religion< the better for your own sakes. peace out.'
I read some of it but it started going on about stuff in the Bible.
Care to explain the context of the verses I posted? And can you not see how it might be interpreted in the way that many predominantly muslim countries do?
And I'm not sure if the muslim basher part was directed at me when all I've done is post a couple of verses from the quran which seem pretty relevant, but I'm not actually, I know you follow a much more tolerant version of Islam but No True Scotsman springs to mind, not that I can blame you for wanting to disassociate yourself.
Care to explain the context of the verses I posted? And can you not see how it might be interpreted in the way that many predominantly muslim countries do?
And I'm not sure if the muslim basher part was directed at me when all I've done is post a couple of verses from the quran which seem pretty relevant, but I'm not actually, I know you follow a much more tolerant version of Islam but No True Scotsman springs to mind, not that I can blame you for wanting to disassociate yourself.
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What do we expect from a Shia? - These are the same sort of 'muslims' who whip and punish themselves because of something that happened centuries ago
but this is just yet another argument along the lines of... those other people aren't true Muslims, only my form of Islam is true Islam. If we went along those lines then there aren't anywhere near as many 'Muslims' in the world as every other distinguishable group of them would supposedly not be following true Islam.
The death penalty in general is very rarely enforced but that shouldn't excuse it. Why should people have to take Islam seriously... its again a problem with people wanting their religion to dictate how other people live their lives.
Its hardly unwarranted criticism of Islam - there are plenty of threads in GD - you'll find threads popping up about China, North Korea etc.. The Islamic world tends to involve a fair few countries that do stupid things by our standards its hardly unsurprising that people would be critical of these things. There are plenty of muslims who share the more crazy Islamic views - people can protest all they want about other views not being true Islam but in the real world they are views/belief's held by big portions of the world's muslim population.
sorry dude - no it wasn't aimed at you - more so the likes of TRM and others who are prevalent in most 'muslamic' threads.
Yes I'd love to explain what context them two verses are in as I actually know about them ones lol! - however I'm not sure this is the time or place bud - This thread is only about one thing - portraying Islam in a poor light which certain individuals will steer towards here irrespective of how much evidence is presented.
If you are genuinely interested in context though - I highly recommend this website - you can get a full PDF download of what I'm currently reading - gives GREAT context to the verses and when they were revealed:
http://quranproject.org/ - I use it in combination with a couple of other transliterations (abdul maajid daryabadi does a good one) to get a good overview of the message of the qu'ran. Unfortunately a lot of so called 'muslims' out there don't even know what it means and read the qu'ran in 'parrot' fashion hence the confusion they have and often portray.
Actively working against it and giving your opinion are different though. You said that they can't 'spread their views' after leaving Islam. This is up to a lot of interpretation.
If used rigorously it would mean they can't talk of any religious matters at all. Would you call saying 'Jesus is the son of God' spreading their view on Islam (since it'd mean Islam is wrong)?
If I encourage people to leave the UK I wouldn't get charged with treason since the UK isn't oppressive.
But do you think someone who encourages people to leave Islam should be charged with apostasy? That isn't actively working against it in the way treason is to states (at least not in democratic ones).
Also you said
That isn't saying you believe it is right, it is saying everyone else IS wrong.
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Read the link I gave above - you'll see both the Prophet Muhammad AND his immediate companions rarely if at all enforced this 'law'.
This one: http://islamnewsroom.com/if-someone-leaves-islam-hot-topics-45
Besides - you talk as if the death for apostacy thing is exclusive to muslims? - How about people leaving Judaism for Islam in Israel, or how about christians becoming muslims in egypt? or shall we talk about hindu's becoming muslims in india? - They have unwritten laws which communities regularly exercise at a local level which we rarely ever hear about in the news.
See what I mean about hypocrisy? - We all know it happens in all walks of life yet you are singling out muslims for this because of a group of well known crackpots from a mostly illiterate country, and blaming Islam. Maybe I should blame Hinduism, christianity, and Judiasm for what goes on abroad too?
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And the point I made still stands... being historically rarely enforced doesn't make it right or excusable...
These days it is enforced by various Islamic states, supported by large numbers of Muslims and various prominent Islamic clerics.
As with the other poster pointing at treason laws - pointing out that other bad things happen isn't really a very good justification. The woman in this case isn't potentially facing death as a result of Hinduism, Christianity of Judaism she's facing death as a result of Islam/Islamic beliefs that are held by significant numbers of muslims.
You're welcome to post a similar case about some country executing a Hindu etc.. woman for a similar 'offense' I'll happily condemn it and call the beliefs of people supporting it backwards.
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Happens regularly in India, them remote village folk are well nuts.
Yet somehow I doubt you would spend 15+ pages of a thread arguing that point
Tis all getting a bit boring now tbh - yaaaaaawwwwwwwwwn
I clearly haven't read the whole thing but I've read the relevant parts and it seems to be pretty much as it sounds? The context seems to be do whatever it takes for the propagation of Islam.
Probably would if people tried to excuse/defend it, claimed criticism was just the result of people being biased against Hindus or if that sort of death penalty was something derived from interpretations of Hinduism, had relevant laws, Hindu priest supporting it etc..etc.. then people in the thread claiming it was nothing to do with Hinduism might well cause a bit of a dispute.