Soldato
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you serious wheeled out that tired one............
World Meteorological Organization: Carbon Dioxide hits 400ppm, 'Time is running out'
- Thread starter LateX'Dog
- Start date
you serious wheeled out that tired one............
Ok, subsidies in other countries are rife. I agree. None that I know in the UK though (I'll admit, I was only thinking about the UK here
)And no, reduction in tax is not a subsidy, especially if it's a reduction in supplementary tax. VAT is an awkward matter, but then electricity is also "subsidised" to the same level but UK sourced non hydrocarbon based electricity hasn't been taxed anywhere near as high as hydrocarbon sourced electricity due to the suplimentary tax on hydrocarbons.
Edit: on the other hand the subsidy most oil and gas gets is generally "given" to the consumer (in cheaper fuel prices) rather than many renewables and the new nuclear deal where the subsidy goes to the company generating the electricity.
Don't we already have a climate change thread?
Anyway if the OP is right in what it says and its too late, then fine, it's too late....live it up while we still can and if they are wrong it won't matter. The universe will not miss us and will carry on regardless...that's for sure.
Like one Professor once said: The chances of anything coming from Mars, are a million to one.....but still they come.
Anyway if the OP is right in what it says and its too late, then fine, it's too late....live it up while we still can and if they are wrong it won't matter. The universe will not miss us and will carry on regardless...that's for sure.
Like one Professor once said: The chances of anything coming from Mars, are a million to one.....but still they come.
Soldato
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*Makes 70s radiophonic workshop noise* I remember the beautiful artwork on the gatefold sleeve.
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Sure it was a different world map and the world did not fry despite high levels of CO2, probably for a whole host of reasons, none being high atmospheric sensitivity to CO2.
But please show me the "insurmountable evidence" that manmade CO2 has caused this warming, that by the way has stopped for the last 15 years.
Please enlighten me with your facts, I have been waiting to be informed of the truth for a long time now.
So far I have only seen guessing machine results that have been wrong, followed by goal post moving, "its hiding under the oceans now".
Don't just repeat appeals to authority like the discredited cook paper "97% of climate scientists say", show me the empirical evidence showing the sensitivity of our climate to CO2.
Show me the model where they have accurately modelled our climate, taking into account natural variability , its a fact you say, show this proof you know of.
I know you cant, same as nobody can prove its low sensitivity, we just don't know yet, but it isn't looking as high as the IPCC scaremongers would have us believe for sure, but you seem to know otherwise.
Scepticism is part of science until we know the answers, to mock it shows lack of understanding of how science works.
Lets see who the fool is, I am all ears.
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Like one Professor once said: The chances of anything coming from Mars, are a million to one.....but still they come.
That's now on download for the train!
Right but i'm sure that is well and above the liveable amount for most animal species.
I have no opinion on this other than I don't really pay a lot of attention to sensationalist statements about climate change.
http://www.climatedepot.com/2009/10...s-factsheet-on-1970s-coming-ice-age-claims-2/
Having grown up in the 80's, where the media and scientists for the matter, did their upmost to convince us we were all going to either die before the end of the decade by:
Apocalyptic nuclear Armageddon.
Starvation due to global warming caused by the hole in the ozone layer.
But only if you were lucky and hadn't drowned first due to rising sea levels.
AIDS.
Freezing due to global cooling ( it depended which month it was, as soon as the mercury went above 5c in November we were all told we would be dead by Christmas)
World War 3.
Asphyxiation from Co2 levels.
And many many others.
The climate has reached so many tipping points of no return since the 70s it's a wonder we are still here at all.
http://www.climatedepot.com/2009/10...s-factsheet-on-1970s-coming-ice-age-claims-2/
Having grown up in the 80's, where the media and scientists for the matter, did their upmost to convince us we were all going to either die before the end of the decade by:
Apocalyptic nuclear Armageddon.
Starvation due to global warming caused by the hole in the ozone layer.
But only if you were lucky and hadn't drowned first due to rising sea levels.
AIDS.
Freezing due to global cooling ( it depended which month it was, as soon as the mercury went above 5c in November we were all told we would be dead by Christmas)
World War 3.
Asphyxiation from Co2 levels.
And many many others.
The climate has reached so many tipping points of no return since the 70s it's a wonder we are still here at all.
Soldato
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Climate change the Wests religion of the 21st century.
CO2 is just a small part of the picture. Other greenhouse gases (sulphur dioxide from power stations and methane from cattle mainly), deforestation for human activities, and positive feedbacks of ice melting are also factors (among others).
http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=57
Also, there was never a pause, see number 1 at The top ten global warming 'skeptic' arguments answered.
I'd really recommend this award-winning documentary. A bunch of guys set up time lapse cameras pointing at glaciers around the world expecting to "debunk" claims that they're receding, only to be shocked to find they actually are all receding faster than anyone expected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chasing_Ice
Also this is pretty funny.
Where do you think the energy comes from to charge the batteries?
This was the exact doomsday stuff I was going on about. The face of the planet changes constantly, places warm up, places get colder, places become inhabitable, places become habitable.
As few people have stated it's all about adapting. These changes will happen over hundreds/ thousands of years. We wont wake up tomorrow and be underwater with no icebergs on Antartica.
lifeforms have adapted and survived for millions of years. We will do the same aslong as we dont kill one another.
Darwins theory of evolution. Back then it was strong vs weak. Now its rich vs poor. Whether you like it or not. People who can afford to survive will survive.
I am all for creating cleaner/ effiecient alternatives to fossil fuels, we have to, as they will run out, not sure when, and not any time soon, but they will. There is no doubt that we will crack wind/ solar / tidal energy one day.
In the mean time I would just rather not have all this doomsday 'man is the cause of climate change and we are all going to die horrible deaths' jibberish rammed down my throat.
As few people have stated it's all about adapting. These changes will happen over hundreds/ thousands of years. We wont wake up tomorrow and be underwater with no icebergs on Antartica.
lifeforms have adapted and survived for millions of years. We will do the same aslong as we dont kill one another.
Darwins theory of evolution. Back then it was strong vs weak. Now its rich vs poor. Whether you like it or not. People who can afford to survive will survive.
I am all for creating cleaner/ effiecient alternatives to fossil fuels, we have to, as they will run out, not sure when, and not any time soon, but they will. There is no doubt that we will crack wind/ solar / tidal energy one day.
In the mean time I would just rather not have all this doomsday 'man is the cause of climate change and we are all going to die horrible deaths' jibberish rammed down my throat.
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Just lol.
On a similar note, an interesting article summarising one of the other major issues we have, relating directly to CO2 emissions, our inflating economy...
It's simple. If we can't change our economic system, our number's up | George Monbiot
http://gu.com/p/3ptxf
While I don't agree with everything he says the overall premise of the article is spot on. Our current system is based on expansion, where the future investments (whatever they may be) pay for the past. It's why inflation is needed in our economy, why populations need to expand and our carbon (and general environmental footprint) is also expanding. It's a huge pyramid scheme that won't end well if we continue on this path. We are already realising it with pensions and Carbon emissions. Hopefully we realise for the rest before it's too late.
It's simple. If we can't change our economic system, our number's up | George Monbiot
http://gu.com/p/3ptxf
While I don't agree with everything he says the overall premise of the article is spot on. Our current system is based on expansion, where the future investments (whatever they may be) pay for the past. It's why inflation is needed in our economy, why populations need to expand and our carbon (and general environmental footprint) is also expanding. It's a huge pyramid scheme that won't end well if we continue on this path. We are already realising it with pensions and Carbon emissions. Hopefully we realise for the rest before it's too late.
Sooo... we need an international society where people work for free, to the best of their ability, where money doesn't actually exist.
Welcome to Starfleet.
the overpopulation hypothesis is one of the most ill informed opinions that float the web.
Overpopulation is a myth, it does not exist and we are at no risk from it. In fact, earth is able to maintain multiples of the current global population without breaking a sweat.
UK is only 12% built over - not populated, that's considerably less, I'm talking about built over, including anything that's been concreted. Yeap, sounds strange doesn't it? You may be labouring under the misapprehension that UK is bursting at the seams with people and that 'our little island' can't take any more. The FACT is that only 12% of it has been built over, and probably around half of that is populated.
In FACT, you could probably put the whole earth population in the state of Texas at the same population/sq.m conditions as London. That's how populated earth is. Do some reading before you start spouting all this nonsense about population control and other rubbish.
And before you start shifting the goalposts into feeding the whole population etc. bear in mind that virtually the whole of africa is barely cultivated, only a fraction of the US is cultivated and most of asia is utilising primitive cultivation techniques. Using modern ones would solve all these problems easily.
Here's a link for the trolls.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
Overpopulation is a myth, it does not exist and we are at no risk from it. In fact, earth is able to maintain multiples of the current global population without breaking a sweat.
UK is only 12% built over - not populated, that's considerably less, I'm talking about built over, including anything that's been concreted. Yeap, sounds strange doesn't it? You may be labouring under the misapprehension that UK is bursting at the seams with people and that 'our little island' can't take any more. The FACT is that only 12% of it has been built over, and probably around half of that is populated.
In FACT, you could probably put the whole earth population in the state of Texas at the same population/sq.m conditions as London. That's how populated earth is. Do some reading before you start spouting all this nonsense about population control and other rubbish.
And before you start shifting the goalposts into feeding the whole population etc. bear in mind that virtually the whole of africa is barely cultivated, only a fraction of the US is cultivated and most of asia is utilising primitive cultivation techniques. Using modern ones would solve all these problems easily.
Here's a link for the trolls.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
I am struggling with this, not the maths, I'll take them at face value. But this is talking about physical space, plus a rate of expansion that far engulfs anything we have.
In a world that mostly ticks on numbers that appear digitally, I am struggling to see his point.
If talking about over crowding, or over populating, we will never reach critical mass. Disease/ natural disasters/ human nature / money will take care of this.
Soldato
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Like one Professor once said: The chances of anything coming from Mars, are a million to one.....but still they come.
Been stuck in my head all day now
.Actually a vast majority of life on earth has gone extinct due to being unable to adapt quick enough to severe climate change (be that the result of natural changes of external extinction events).
"Most extinctions have occurred naturally, prior to Homo sapiens walking on Earth: it is estimated that 99.9% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct."
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