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Gameworks, Mantle and a pot calling a kettle black

I was very surprised that battlefield hardline or whatever it is called is not restricted to amd mantle only in the Beta, and i am sure if it was some amd users would not be bothered in the slightest.

The worst impact on gaming as an nvidia users is amd mantle and console ports from ps4 and xboxone.

The worst impact on gaming as an amd user is gameworks and phsyx.

All my opinion of course.
 
andybird123 said:
You mean Dan Baker that now works for Oxide. Because that sounds like he would still be impartial, given that he was extolling the virtues of command lists a year or so ago.

If anything, given how much he talked up command lists and now he's in with Mantle is rubbishing them, it doesn't do too much for his credibility as it just makes it look like he's willing to say whatever someone pays him to say.

I've played Civ5 on both AMD and Nvidia hardware and I don't get a fall off in performance on Nvidia, so I would say no. IIRC Kaap is a big Civ5 fan so he might be able to chip in as well.

Which is still tangential from the point Marine made, that I was pointing out was a fallacy, which is that games have ALWAYS shown vendor bias, it is not something that has suddenly appeared with GameWorks.



The single GPU scores are also much higher for the 580 than they should be compared with 7970, e.g. roughly the same as the 7970 when it should be a good 30%+ faster
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I mean Dan Baker of Oxide games, who helped make DX11 and he was also the graphics lead on Civilization 5. He was a pioneer and an industry expert in experimenting with DX11 deferred contexts.

Guess what, a lot of developers agree with him on this. No surprise that resident forum expert andybird knows better though LOL. :D

They mention it right at the start of this video.

Disclaimer game devs reaching orgasm over working with Mantle below...


pippAy9.jpg
 
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I'll also repeat myself - extreme tech's article on gameworks highlights that "benchmark results" because of the default settings present a skewed view of that game's performance, even when other settings don't, so extreme techs argument against gameworks is based almost entirely on contrived benchmark results showing NVidia hardware in a positive light... but now you are saying that benchmark results are not important, even when they show a skew

you can't have it both ways, you can't say that gameworks is bad because... using a narrow field of a single benchmark at very specific settings, whilst at the same time say that another game's benchmarks are unimportant because they are too specific

I'll remind you, I am not talking up command lists, marine said that Gameworks is the first time that a big vendor skew has occurred in gaming history, I'm pointing out that this is utter nonsense, I am also pointing out that benchmark skew can occur and is attributable to things other than gameworks

a fan boy never says anything bad about their chosen fan vendor, I am critical of NVidia when they do something I don't like, but gameworks is not one of them, where as you have chosen to whiteknight for AMD on every single subject... I have in the last couple of years bought AMD hardware, I have had to get rid of it because it couldn't do the things I wanted, but it is quite funny that you feel the need to sling insults at someone who has and does buy AMD hardware
your point is always that AMD can do no wrong, my point has always been that they are as bad as each other
 
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andybird123 said:
I'll also repeat myself - extreme tech's article on gameworks highlights that "benchmark results" because of the default settings present a skewed view of that game's performance, even when other settings don't, so extreme techs argument against gameworks is based almost entirely on contrived benchmark results showing NVidia hardware in a positive light... but now you are saying that benchmark results are not important, even when they show a skew
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When the new Civilization comes out, lets see how your precious DX11 deferred contexts stand up to Mantle. I'll give you a little hint, prepare an orifice.
 
LtMatt said:
Vs you, Nvidia fanboy and GameWorks defender. Who to believe... game devs for me. :D
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You really need to get your sceptic hat on when listening to people like those developers. Not everything they say is:

a) going to be entirely truthful
b) not going to have a large degree of spin involved

At the end of the day they're (in the case of DICE) financially connected to AMD at the mo so you really can't take anything they say as gospel. Nor do they speak for developers as a whole. Basically don't be so flaming gullible. :p
 
LtMatt said:
When the new Civilization comes out, lets see how your precious DX11 deferred contexts stand up to Mantle. I'll give you a little hint, prepare an orifice.
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But that's not relevant at all to what Angrybird's saying.
If you have no actual rebuttal, just don't reply. For someone who's "out of the argument" you're still arguing.
 
Rusty0611 said:
You really need to get your sceptic hat on when listening to people like those developers. Not everything they say is:

a) going to be entirely truthful
b) not going to have a large degree of spin involved

At the end of the day they're (in the case of DICE) financially connected to AMD at the mo so you really can't take anything they say as gospel. Nor do they speak for developers as a whole. Basically don't be so flaming gullible. :p
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It comes down to knowledge. They have a lot more than you, me or anyone else here. That includes the resident forum experts too. You may think you know better, or im just being gullible in listening to and believing what they say but in reality thats not the case.
 
matt, that isn't even a response to what I wrote - your pet article on gameworks says that APPARENT benchmark skew is just as important as actual long term gameplay skew (or lack thereof)

marine said that vendor skew had not existed in the same way before gameworks

I posted a benchmark that shows that skew HAS existed long before gameworks

I'm not even debating command lists with you - for all we know at this point, the next Civ game won't even use them so its a non-point
 
LtMatt said:
Nothing worthwhile to add? Shocker.
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What'd you want me to say? I already said you weren't actually posting anything relevant to what Angry said, then I was telling you to "get off it" ergo, stop pretending that you're actual posting anything relevant to what he's posted, because it's not. In fact, your comment was somewhat child like.

And that "For someone out of an argument" you're still arguing.
 
LtMatt said:
When the new Civilization comes out, lets see how your precious DX11 deferred contexts stand up to Mantle. I'll give you a little hint, prepare an orifice.
Click to expand...

Kind of like how Nvidia's DX11 is bending over to mantle in the extremely draw call hungry mantle demo Star Swarm?

Oh wait.... NV's DX11 is actually faster than mantle there.
 
Martini1991 said:
What'd you want me to say? I already said you weren't actually posting anything relevant to what Angry said, then I was telling you to "get off it" ergo, stop pretending that you're actual posting anything relevant to what he's posted, because it's not.

And that "For someone out of an argument" you're still arguing.
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I responded to his deferred contexts claims.
 
matt, I don't really know how simple I can make this for you

marine said game/benchmark skew never existed to a large extent before gameworks

I posted a benchmark that showed this to be false

that is all

I pointed out the reason the benchmark showed the skew and that it was not gameworks or even directly NVidia at play, whether or not that performance advantage continues over a long period of gameplay is totally irrelevant to the point that marine made or my counterpoint, the only thing you are doing by saying that benchmark results are not important is in fact totally arguing against the original extremetech article that you were so in love with
 
LtMatt said:
It comes down to knowledge. They have a lot more than you, me or anyone else here. That includes the resident forum experts too. You may think you know better, or im just being gullible in listening to and believing what they say but in reality thats not the case.
Click to expand...

It's not as simple as that. They have knowledge - don't think anybody has disputed they know better - but they're also (currently) intrinsically linked to AMD. If you're taking what they say at face value then you are being gullible. Not to say everything they say has been spun or anything like that but you can't just follow what they say and regurgitate it as absolute like a sheep.
 
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