No, the whole thread is about the perception of the contribution something that everyone seems to be completely overlooking ...
British public wrongly believe rich pay most in tax
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No, the whole thread is about the perception of the contribution something that everyone seems to be completely overlooking ...
It doesn't stack up though.
Average property price:
Wandsworth, with an overall average price of £612,905 was more expensive than nearby Merton (£488,433) and Kingston upon Thames (£421,117), but was cheaper than Richmond Upon Thames (£668,516).
Council tax charges:
Richmond: £1057 - £3172
Wandsworth: £455 - £1364
Merton: £934 - £2802
Kingston: £1118 - £3356
Wandsworth clearly know how to use their money better.
No it's the perception of contribution when it comes to TAX, it has nothing to do with other contributions they might make to society.
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An observation in relation to the aforementioned post not a statement that the thread was about that. But feel free to ignore all my other posts in the thread most of which keep mentioning what the actual OP is about.
you probably should have addressed it specifically to that then rather the incredibly broad sweeping statement you did make.
example "Dave why do you always do x"
instead of
"why do people always do x"
see it has quite a different interpretation.
Which is what I said, as I didn't mention income tax at all in my post & specifically mentioned a combination of council tax, national insurance & VAT.
Personally I'd set the bar to a higher living wage, closer to £20k PA.
Anything after at a flat unavoidable rate which includes all other forms of income & a measures put in place to ensure the ratios between incomes are kept within a certain tolerance & that in my view would be a reasonable compromise.
Just because it's popular to take a greater proportion of the fruits of another persons labour, it doesn't make it right, equitable or fair. It just means we lack sufficient protections against the abuse of rights in this area.
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I know what the OP is about and I know what your stance is with respect to this thread, nothing has been ignored. I wanted to question you about your comment as it didn't really have anything to do with the perceptions of what people think they pay in tax.
I think the point is that most people when they consider net contribution can't think past tax. The reality is 'contribution' towards society is hugely complex & the other areas are often ignored with a focus being on the economic side only.
The whole "The rich contribute more tax" is an old war drum to justify further punitive measures against the poorest members of society based on just one view of 'contribution'. In this context it's valid to bring up.
also ignores benefits...
if you're on very low income, receive housing benefit, receive tax credits, receive child benefit.... pay VAT on purchases, duty on alcohol/cigarettes then yes someone could quite easily show that your % tax is a significant portion of your earned income... but your earned, taxable income isn't reflective of your actual income - you can quite feasibly be receiving significantly more in payments from the state than you're paying back in the form of taxation.
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I'm fully aware what what you are saying and I don't disagree with you on the idea of contribution. Xordium asked a specific question and I answered it was because the premise of the thread was about perception of tax contribution and not contribution in general. It's probably because I misinterpreted the meaning behind his post.
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Just another ploy to get more tax end of day. Equality mantra is the mechanism at which the state and the very rich manipulate the poor and prevent their social mobility. It is one of those conflicting biases that prevent realization. All the policies have regressive results. It only works to further a larger government and a smaller productive capacity.
If they realy want to do something they could work to reduce specific taxations. Instead they harp on about inequality and progressive tax. They just want to take more money from the rich and everyone.
If they realy want to do something they could work to reduce specific taxations. Instead they harp on about inequality and progressive tax. They just want to take more money from the rich and everyone.
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The so called "sin" taxes disproportionately impact the poor, how do we solve this without removing what are otherwise considered reasonably good taxes?
We could do with another look at VAT and make sure it isn't on things that aren't considered luxuries. Possibly clothes under a certain value should be VAT free rather than size as is currently?
What do we do about the regressive tax that is council tax? A local income tax is one idea and probably one that would be popular on pensioners but is it fair and would it have the desired impact?
We could do with another look at VAT and make sure it isn't on things that aren't considered luxuries. Possibly clothes under a certain value should be VAT free rather than size as is currently?
What do we do about the regressive tax that is council tax? A local income tax is one idea and probably one that would be popular on pensioners but is it fair and would it have the desired impact?
This is a thread about taxes and government expenditure, not other assets or services where poor people contribute (labour force, etc..).
why take what I say completely out of context and try to warp it in to something which I never said? It is just a plain fact that the poorest people have a greater government expenditure on average than their tax contribution.
I thought so myself.
I guess the reason mostly it's valid is because the topic in general is usually a hugely loaded one - one way or another - in the OP in favour of the underdog & in 90% of causes in which you heard in in favour of the inverse.
Yes, but as you full well know - it's a loaded subject to begin with.
No one is overlooking it at all, this thread is about taxes!
No one has been talking about anything other than tax. No one has said the poor don't contribute to society. It would be very foolish to think otherwise.
They just don't contribute as much taxes as the average government expenditure is. There are a host of reasons why, gross income inequality for starters, and on the flip side, the rich are taxed so heavily that even if the poor gave far more in taxes they would never keep up. We have a progressive tax system that ensures the poor rightly will never contribute more than the avaergae cost of all services.