I don't know why I waste my time. Everyone's mind is made up that they are right and everyone else is wrong. If you want to carry on believing that oral traditions are all like Chinese whispers and that the Jewish oral tradition changed with every repetition then go right ahead...I'm out.
Atheists unite
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Well people have a view and they will explain to you why they have that view. If you provide reason to change they typically will. Of course people think they are right otherwise they wouldn't hold that view
The religions in question share the belief that their god is omniscient and omnipotent. It's a key belief for those religions. So in the context of those religions it's impossible for their god to not be able to give a clear message to humanity. In the context of those religions it's impossible for their god to not be able to know everything and/or not to be able to do everything. If their god existed as described, their god would be able to give a clear message to humanity, one that could not be interpreted in more than one way, one which all humans could understand, once which would be a revelation (and the same revelation) for every human for all time. The limits of humanity don't apply to an omnisicent and omnipotent super-god. No limits apply - they could explain the precise workings of the entire universe to a budgie. Somehow.
Hey you don't waste your time! One of the few posters who's posts I actually enjoy reading, even if I may not agree with one thing you generally post a lot of sense.
Exactly.
If you attribute life to God it has been nothing but a catastrophic failure.
I mean think about it, you have a guy who has infinite power. What does he do? He makes a playground, throws a load of humans into it, throws many different revelations into it, as well as giving his pawns the ability to make up their own BS revelations. Then expects everyone to somehow magically know which one is real, and if you don't have this magic power of "faith" (which the same god decided not to give you) or perhaps you were born into the wrong family (which the same god also decided) you're thrown into hell?...
Not to mention circumcision, HE causes babies to be born with foreskin and then HE forces people to commit mutilation in his name? Or maybe they just didn't wash as much back 1500 years ago and you got more penis cheese if you weren't cut down there. The guys during the prophet's time had to get his one done when he was much older and it must have hurt a lot, so they put it in Religion that you have to do it to babies so that they don't have to feel the pain as adults.
I cant bear to think my God came up with something so utterly evil.
I find it far more comforting knowing that life as we know it today is the result of an astronomical number of natural reactions over an equally astronomical number of years.
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Well people have a view and they will explain to you why they have that view. If you provide reason to change they typically will. Of course people think they are right otherwise they wouldn't hold that view
They typical don't, no matter how much evidence and reasoning you give....all you get in return in an increasingly reductive and pointless argument, or just plain nonsense that ignores the very basic precept of the point you've made...Angillion's post for example, completely misses the point entirely while illustrating, ironically that mankind isn't omniscient therefore cannot see the end result of humanity like the God he describes can and so therefore just because we don't understand something at this point in our spiritual development doesn't mean that the lesson isn't valid or will not be understood when mankind reaches the correct point, the fact that we struggle with the ideas of Good and Evil and strife itself may very well be the lesson we need to learn for example, as he says the limits of mankind do not apply to God, but they still do apply to mankind so any teaching must be geared to the development of mankind, both individually and collectively...and Mattyfez's just makes my effort to explain the workings of oral history pointless.
People generally hold their view and they keep holding it, whatever anyone else says or shows them. This why I can no longer be bothered to share either my knowledge or opinion on the matter. Everyone else knows what they know and they don't want to know anything else.
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Castiel is right.
Look at me. I 100% believe in God and people on here have tried to shoot me down about my belief but they wont change my mind! It works both ways. But, some do change their way of thinking after many years of sticking rigidly to a certain belief.
With a Christian / believer in God its all about that word that many cannot understand, 'Faith'. Faith without any need of proofs. Its so hard to explain that to someone who has no faith or belief in God. It is hard for them to understand.
My faith is so strong that i would gladly give my life for God! That is ridiculous to many on here but that is how strong my love of God is. It is etched deep within me.
Ok, some can ridicule me but it wont change my mind! What you will find with me is that i would never say that everyone 'has' to follow what i do. It is up to them how they think or what they believe. I just tell it as to how i feel. Up to you what you think or choose to believe. We all have free will.
Look at me. I 100% believe in God and people on here have tried to shoot me down about my belief but they wont change my mind! It works both ways. But, some do change their way of thinking after many years of sticking rigidly to a certain belief.
With a Christian / believer in God its all about that word that many cannot understand, 'Faith'. Faith without any need of proofs. Its so hard to explain that to someone who has no faith or belief in God. It is hard for them to understand.
My faith is so strong that i would gladly give my life for God! That is ridiculous to many on here but that is how strong my love of God is. It is etched deep within me.
Ok, some can ridicule me but it wont change my mind! What you will find with me is that i would never say that everyone 'has' to follow what i do. It is up to them how they think or what they believe. I just tell it as to how i feel. Up to you what you think or choose to believe. We all have free will.
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Soldato
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You summed it up perfectly, some people just don't understand why you would give your life for something that can't be proved, I included. That concept is absolutely alien to me and is the problem most people have with it.
It's your 100% certainty I find more disturbing than anything else,
You're absolutely 100% totally convinced beyond all doubt that God is there and he's watching you right now, that he listens to your prayers, is there for you 24/7, watches over you when you're having a ****, etc etc, if you win the lottery - you'll thank god, if you get diagnosed with a serious illness - you'll pray to god for a cure, it goes on and on and on.
I have faith in various things, (my personal abilities, friends, loved ones etc) but I do not understand the sort of 100% blind faith that you place in god, it scares me a bit, that someone can get so caught up in something, not because of the unending and boring "does god exist or not" debate, but simply because it's not even up for discussion with you. I don't see any possible reasonable train of events (other than indoctrination or stupidity) that could place a person in this position.
For you the question is not whether he's there or not, it's "he's there, for me. end of."
I don't think i'll ever understand..
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Same, I will never understand this blind faith business. I put it down to something missing in the brain.
I have a friend who I class as very similar to me except he is highly religious and attends church all day Sundays and I am an atheist.
Its just struck me as quite ironic that a sizable chunk of atheists want to gather donations so that an un-elected member of their group can spread the words of their conviction that theism is wrong.
Swap Atheism and Theism and you'll get people calling the speaker a new prophet, and the beliefs that he professes a nonsense cult
I stand by my original post.
Swap Atheism and Theism and you'll get people calling the speaker a new prophet, and the beliefs that he professes a nonsense cult
I stand by my original post.
Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Take the human cell for example, absolute complexity that no man will ever truly understand, man will never know the pathway of such complexities.
Or maybe you refuse to understand? which could be seen as ignorance on your part. To say that life evolved from blind unguided random chance processes is folly, it can work both ways you know.
Soldato
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Its just struck me as quite ironic that a sizable chunk of atheists want to gather donations so that an un-elected member of their group can spread the words of their conviction that theism is wrong.
Swap Atheism and Theism and you'll get people calling the speaker a new prophet, and the beliefs that he professes a nonsense cult
I stand by my original post.
I don't think it's that many, most people couldn't care less.
Maybe one day you will understand. Thats the power of love of God. Cant explain it mate. You have to experience it to understand it.
All the best anyway
OH HI KEDGE.
I like your new tactics btw - classy, quoting lines from the bible (or somewhere equally worthless) as proof that evolution is false, some serious escalation in rhetoric there - can't say I've heard anything like it from you before... You'd best keep going before your keyboard commits suicide.
It's this thing called "emotion" that's pretty good at overriding reasoning. You're trying to use logic to explain the reasoning behind something that makes no sense but of course it fails which is why this thread is a 17 page long skid mark in OCUK's tight briefs that'll take a week to wash out. There's is absolutely no point in arguing your point when someone has made an emotional decision.
I may have missed that bit, but what evidence did you present that a Sky God that created everything by whispering a few words?
I never made that assertion in the first place.
Yes but certain members of the website does get paid to do theological research so it's in their favor to propagate and dissect the fairy tale into ever increasing smaller slices. Imagine that, spending your whole life not building anything, not creating anything of worth for your fellow man. All you do is keep the thing alive that's killed more people in the history of the world than any sickness or disease ever did.
If you are fallaciously referring to me, I don't get paid to propagate anything least of all theology and what have you done to build anything, create anything or sacrifice anything for your fellow man? What makes your life and whatever you may have done or do any more value than my life or any other of the members here you are referring to?