Upcoming games to support DirectX

[Marine-RX179]

I have gamed since Arkanoid was a "must play game" in my local chippy and Defender was amazing, I have owned so many computers and consoles from a C16/Spectrum 48K/C64/Spectrum 128K/Amiga 500/Amiga 1200/Amiga 4000 and seen most iterations of PC Os's and it is only since Mantle has come about that DX is awful.... Sure MS might have been a little lapse with it and AMD have given them a kick up the butt however, this doesn't detract from the fact that MS (and possibly Linux) have been the only one's who have kept me gaming on my preferred platform.

When you have seen GFX progress like I have, it is jaw dropping how far we have come. I am a proponent of MS and they have given me a great gaming experience.

The thing is, whilst I do appreciate what dx has done for the PC gaming, there's no going around that there's inefficiency there can be improve on. I mean I've been playing mmos for years, and accepted the 20-25fps as the norm and thinking that the way it is and nothing can be done about it other than keep chasing the CPU train (and would still struggle to hold 40fps+). But with Mantle came along, it has shown that it is not the way it's meant to be, and not that all the CPUs over the years being useless and incapable in mmos and other CPU intesive games, but it is down to the fundamental limitation of dx's high CPU overheads.

It is like eating at the local Chinese buffet for years and thinking that's how Chinese food are meant to be, but then came a new Chinese resturant open in town (the kind that you have to order off the menu not buffet), and you tried it and find the standard is at a completely different level, and you can't help but to think..."what's these crap I've been eating over the years!?"

So simply put, I thought dx good because I have nothing better to compare to, and accepted as it is (with it's flaws included). What AMD's Mantle has done was it addressed the limitation of dx- the high CPU overheads...which has been a frustration that shared by both AMD themselves (hurting their CPU sales), and users who thought the only way to go is forever chasing the CPU train...and still get only 30fps in the games they wish to play (mmos, Total Wars, other RTS etc).

Could MS had brought the low-level access going as far back as dx10? Possibly, but as they didn't want PC to progress too far ahead of xbox, and they wouldn't have, even if they could have.

I guess may be rather than blaming dx, it'd probably be more appropriate to blame consoles for holding back dx from being all it can be. I still think without Mantle forcing MS's hands, dx12 would not have low level access, as the new gen console is already inferior to mid-range to high-end gaming PC hardware wise despite they just launched not that long ago.

 

[Gregster]

Fair points Marine. I just see it as DX was rather stagnant but worked (and pretty well for the most) and AMD have given them the kick start they needed. I would be more than happy if Mantle was coded for my hardware as well. Choice is a good thing and sure I would love less CPU overheads.

 

[LambChop]

Found this:

http://uk.ign.com/games/upcoming/pc?filter=latest

Good stuff

Now you're talking

 

[LambChop]

If it helps anyone I found a list of upcoming PowerGL and Glide games!

Spoiler

Found a list of games that work with mantle right off the bat....

 

[LambChop]

Fair points Marine. I just see it as DX was rather stagnant but worked (and pretty well for the most) and AMD have given them the kick start they needed. I would be more than happy if Mantle was coded for my hardware as well. Choice is a good thing and sure I would love less CPU overheads.

But gain a horribly programmed API to sook every ounce of VRAM from your cards in games ? and thats just for starters...

As someone else said in this thread, Mantle IS a bag o crap.

 

[ubersonic]

As someone else said in this thread, Mantle IS a bag o crap.

Direct3D was on version 8.0 before it stopped being crap, Mantle is in beta, I think it's winning.

 

[Gregster]

But gain a horribly programmed API to sook every ounce of VRAM from your cards in games ? and thats just for starters...

As someone else said in this thread, Mantle IS a bag o crap.

It is an API in its infancy and will get better. I would happily use it with my nVidia GPUs.

 

[Marine-RX179]

As someone else said in this thread, Mantle IS a bag o crap.

I would make the same remarks toward peoples' posts which clearly has nothing contructive or of value to add to discussion but only for sole purpose of trolling or baiting

 

[LambChop]

Direct3D was on version 8.0 before it stopped being crap, Mantle is in beta, I think it's winning.

Mantle has been out for a while, still in beta after many many months with nothing changed since its release... at this rate DX12 will be out and Mantle will still be breaking games since BF4.

It is an API in its infancy and will get better. I would happily use it with my nVidia GPUs.

You're a changed man Greg

I would make the same remarks toward peoples' posts which clearly has nothing contructive or of value to add to discussion but only for sole purpose of trolling or baiting

I love it when AMD peeps say DX is rubbish and its fine, yet If Mantle is crap its trolling.

 

[Ayahuasca]

I think directx does its job perfectly fine tbh, it has to work with every hardware configuration using windows. I see mantle as being a sort of performance car, its brilliant when it's doing what it's made for but there's a whole host of other stuff I need from a car before I'd consider buying. You don't get much mileage from mantle atm with 2-3 games that use it and by the time it's in more games we'll have DX12 that should close the gap a little and work in every new game.

 

[Gregster]

You're a changed man Greg

Nah, just being realistic. Why wouldn't I want something that works my CPU less and gives me more fps? No way I am going AMD to get that in the couple of games that are out and I have ordered the Acer 4K G-Sync monitor but a few more fps would be nice

Edit:

Just to add, I have absolutely nothing against DX but if nVidia took on Mantle, I would be very happy.

 

[PhysicsMan94]

As I've always said, the technology and principles behind Mantle are good - of course it's great to move towards a less CPU bottlenecked regime. However, it's the "politics" behind Mantle that I don't like, we do not want to see a return to vendor based APIs - that would just lead to huge industry fragmentation and the need to buy 2 (or even 3) separate PCs to play different vendor-based games.

DirectX 12 is going to be solving the same problems that Mantle was designed to solve (albeit, probably not as effectively for architecture specific coding reasons), and it's going to work for all vendors without causing any fragmentation in the industry (unless AMD suddenly decide to throw a tantrum but that would only be bad for AMD customers then).

 

[Gregster]

As I've always said, the technology and principles behind Mantle are good - of course it's great to move towards a less CPU bottlenecked regime. However, it's the "politics" behind Mantle that I don't like, we do not want to see a return to vendor based APIs - that would just lead to huge industry fragmentation and the need to buy 2 (or even 3) separate PCs to play different vendor-based games.

DirectX 12 is going to be solving the same problems that Mantle was designed to solve (albeit, probably not as effectively for architecture specific coding reasons), and it's going to work for all vendors without causing any fragmentation in the industry (unless AMD suddenly decide to throw a tantrum but that would only be bad for AMD customers then).

Spot on.

The problem if nVidia took on Mantle would be the way it is written. AMD spokes peoples have always said that Mantle was written for GCN, so that straight away would put question marks regarding working or working well with nVidia tech. As for DX12, it will do a similar job to Mantle but covering all the cards capable of DX12, I can't see it getting so close to the metal (I detest that phrase) as Mantle but will be as near as damn it.

I said in the AMD thread that it is exciting times for PC gamers and a strong future. Mantle works well for GCN cards, G-Sync works well for nVidia cards and soon DX12 for everyone.

As for Freesync, there is nothing on the road map from AMD through the rest of 2014, so will be interesting to see when that does come about.

 

[LambChop]

Nah, just being realistic. Why wouldn't I want something that works my CPU less and gives me more fps? No way I am going AMD to get that in the couple of games that are out and I have ordered the Acer 4K G-Sync monitor but a few more fps would be nice

Edit:

Just to add, I have absolutely nothing against DX but if nVidia took on Mantle, I would be very happy.

Fair doo's. I'm also looking forward to another nice review of your thoughts on it when you get it.

 

[Gregster]

Fair doo's. I'm also looking forward to another nice review of your thoughts on it when you get it.

Absolutely. I will give as fair a review as I possibly can. September the 5th can't get here quick enough

 

[Marine-RX179]

As I've always said, the technology and principles behind Mantle are good - of course it's great to move towards a less CPU bottlenecked regime. However, it's the "politics" behind Mantle that I don't like, we do not want to see a return to vendor based APIs - that would just lead to huge industry fragmentation and the need to buy 2 (or even 3) separate PCs to play different vendor-based games.

Is Mantle making directx performance worse for Nvidia hardware than if Mantle didn't exist? No, so I don't know what are you crying about. If anything, it's forcing MS to step up their game and do something about improving on the dx12 over what they may initially had in mind and rethink the priorties.

You keep going on and on about AMD trying to fragmentate the market, but the simply truth is because Mantle feature doesn't cost the users any price premium and is essentially free for them, if dx12 turn out to be better the users would be happily jump from the Mantle wagon back onto dx12 wagon...in fact they can hop back and forth between the two as they please.

Nvidia on the other hand their proprietary techs require users invest heavily, so people who spend hundred of quids on things like 3D Visions Glasses, 3D Visions monitors, G-sync monitors, they would essentially get trapped within the ecosystem due to the heavy investments they made (similar to Apple), thus strongly restricted from ever considering graphic options other than Nvidia again.

It's laughable people keep accusing AMD trying fragmentate the market (something that not even happened yet) by improving the performance of its own hardware which doesn't affect dx performance in anyway and is open for everyone to see; other hand with Nvidia's GameWork which are claimed for improving the performance and experience for their users (which is essentially the same as what AMD trying/hoping Mantle to do) but is closed and nobody except Nvidia and the developers would know what's going on behind the scene is a great idea, despite ill-effect has already been seen on their rival's hardware, regardless of who is responsible for or what causes that.

Two words- double-standards

 

[LambChop]

Is Mantle making directx performance worse for Nvidia hardware than if Mantle didn't exist? No, so I don't know what are you crying about. If anything, it's forcing MS to step up their game and do something about improving on the dx12 over what they may initially had in mind and rethink the priorties.

You keep going on and on about AMD trying to fragmentate the market, but the simply truth is because Mantle feature doesn't cost the users any price premium and is essentially free for them, if dx12 turn out to be better the users would be happily jump from the Mantle wagon back onto dx12 wagon...in fact they can hop back and forth between the two as they please.

Nvidia on the other hand their proprietary techs require users invest heavily, so people who spend hundred of quids on things like 3D Visions Glasses, 3D Visions monitors, G-sync monitors, they would essentially get trapped within the ecosystem due to the heavy investments they made (similar to Apple), thus strongly restricted from ever considering graphic options other than Nvidia again.

It's laughable people keep accusing AMD trying fragmentate the market (something that not even happened yet) by improving the performance of its own hardware which doesn't affect dx performance in anyway and is open for everyone to see; other hand with Nvidia's GameWork which are claimed for improving the performance and experience for their users (which is essentially the same as what AMD trying/hoping Mantle to do) but is closed and nobody except Nvidia and the developers would know what's going on behind the scene is a great idea, despite ill-effect has already been seen on their rival's hardware, regardless of who is responsible for or what causes that.

Two words- double-standards

Mantle is not open for others to see, even slap head said its not yet.

Name one Gameworks game that has hindered AMD.

 

[Marine-RX179]

Mantle is not open for others to see, even slap head said its not yet.

Name one Gameworks game that has hindered AMD.

I was referring to open for people to see that it doesn't affect dx performance in anyway and the two use complete different paths; GameWorks on the other hand, there's no way of verifying and we only got Nvidia's words for it.

 

[Boomstick777]

It is an API in its infancy and will get better. I would happily use it with my nVidia GPUs.

You won't need to mate, the high end Nvidia cards are still ahead in DX VS Mantle, and next year DX12 will be here anyway.

Mantle just seems to bring the high end AMD cards up to par with the more expensive Nvidia cards running DX in the couple of games it supports so far. Which is great for AMD, and for the consumer to save a bit of money buying a lesser card for BF4 etc, but if you're already on a high end Nvidia card makes no difference tbh.

I suppose it good too have options, if AMD do ever make Mantle open. By then DX12 will likely be here so prob won't ever use it anyway

Mantle was great for crossfire it has to be said, smooth as butter in BF4, much better than AMD crossfire running in Direct X.

 

[LambChop]

I was referring to open for people to see that it doesn't affect dx performance in anyway and the two use complete different paths; GameWorks on the other hand, there's no way of verifying and we only got Nvidia's words for it.

From what you said before and from this response, I gather you're saying they are guilty until they prove themselves innocent ? If so, you only need to look at Watch Dogs for your proof.