** SHIELD TABLETS NOW AVAILABLE & BUNDLES FROM OcUK!! **

[Gibbo]

When I read the review those numbers didn’t stand out to me as anything special but the extremely poor battery life did stand out. Less then 3 hours is not suitable for a gaming tablet. When people shop for tablets they don't tend to care about the GPU they do care about the battery life.

I don’t care about game stream despite what NVidia say you can do the same with Steam or Limelight which are perfectly playable and easy to use.
As far as I can see Shield is just a standard tablet with some software that NVidia are trying to hype up as something special when it’s not as it runs on almost any tablet. It’s not the world’s first true gaming tablet. I prefer the other gaming tablets due to better controllers and battery life for mobile gaming. Something like http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51G10OgFCrL.jpg pretty much does everything shield does only its way more suitable as a gaming tablet .


It might have been the other thread but I am pretty sure I said I don’t expect throttling or poor battery life with game streaming or films. As you said Gamestream is only streaming a video stream which you can pretty much do on just about any tablet.

What does shield offer? It cannot play any extra games; it cannot play any games better. A lot of the stuff NVidia talk about like DX12 and OpenGL 4 is useless in Android and just marketing hype. Game Streaming works fine without Shield. Its gaming battery life is poor, what is its selling point to gamers? How does it compare against other gaming tablets as that's what's its being sold as. What has it got going for it over other gaming tablets?

I just don’t see the market for Shield or how it’s going to gain any market share or even turn a profit. Nothing I do here is going to affect Shield sales so it will be interesting to look back in 6months, 12months and to see how it faired.

To be frank I've not used a tablet that under gaming last much longer than 3hrs especially one so small as only 8" and so thin. Only on much larger units like x86 based models.

Also a serious question, what is your connection with PowerVR? I ask as back when they had desktop cards you defended them like you had shares in them or some kind of interest. You said how great they were on desktop and how they were the future. The reality was both AMD and NVIDIA owned their ass and they are no longer to be seen on desktop.

 

[jp7152]

So yours did not throttle then?

Didn't seem to. That's with an overclock and about 30c ambient temperate. Hopefuly the Shield will be similar.

Do you know if the 4G versions going to be ready to ship at the same time as the Wifi ones?

Thanks!

 

[Gibbo]

Didn't seem to. That's with an overclock and about 30c ambient temperate. Hopefuly the Shield will be similar.

Do you know if the 4G versions going to be ready to ship at the same time as the Wifi ones?

Thanks!

About a week or so later is what were hearing at the moment.

 

[Pottsey]

To be frank I've not used a tablet that under gaming last much longer than 3hrs especially one so small as only 8" and so thin. Only on much larger units like x86 based models.

Also a serious question, what is your connection with PowerVR? I ask as back when they had desktop cards you defended them like you had shares in them or some kind of interest. You said how great they were on desktop and how they were the future. The reality was both AMD and NVIDIA owned their ass and they are no longer to be seen on desktop.

That’s not what happened at all but this isn’t the thread to go into details. PowerVR are a technology license based company and they license technology to other companies. They do not produce or sell to the market directly for the most part. It’s not a very well-known fact but millions of Intel GPU’s are really PowerVR GPUs as Intel license the technology.

I do have shares in PowerVR as before the tablet market and smartphone market took off I could see how mobile GPUs are the future. I remember getting laughed at back them but turns out I was right and I backed the right horse. Against what some believe I never invested or worked for Ageia PhysX like so many people say. My current investments are in Digital radio which should more then triple in size and mobile ray tracing which I believe will be widespread in coming years. Got some investment in IoT as well but that doesn’t interested me as much at ray tracing.

 

[jh30uk]

USA did not accept DAB though 1st time around.

I have had DAB device(s) since they first appeared.

 

[jp7152]

About a week or so later is what were hearing at the moment.

Great. Thanks. Looking forward to it.

 

[Apache14]

I do have shares in PowerVR as before the tablet market and smartphone market took off I could see how mobile GPUs are the future.

Ok so here are my issues with your arguments :-

1) you constantly say how much better the new PowerVR chips are, without any real world tests to back the statements up.

2) every "good" point people bring up about the new nvidia tablet you have a point to make that a bad point, with no real evidence (throttling, battery, performance)

The reality of the situation is this nvida have released a gaming focused tablet with the most powerful tablet GPU on the market to date and some cool gaming focused aspects to the device (bespoke controller, game streaming). The TK1 beats the current favourite "flag ship" SoC (Snapdragon 801) and looks like it will end up matching the 805.

PowerVR have no high end design wins in the android market (even if you include intel atom stuff). the current PowerVR based devices on the market (including apple devices) dont match the K1 in performance ..... and no amount of PowerVR PR info can change that.

And this is without taking into account you have stock in PowerVR (Not saying that I wouldn't try and back a company I have stock in). But it does make you look a little like a tool when you try make it seem like powerVR is the best thing under the sun ......

 

[Freddie1980]

When I read the review those numbers didn’t stand out to me as anything special but the extremely poor battery life did stand out. Less then 3 hours is not suitable for a gaming tablet. When people shop for tablets they don't tend to care about the GPU they do care about the battery life.

I don’t care about game stream despite what NVidia say you can do the same with Steam or Limelight which are perfectly playable and easy to use.

Well there's the problem. You don't understand who Nvidia are pitching this product to or what Shield tablet is all about. People who are buying into Shield DO care about the GPU it has as this isn't a mainstream product Shield is for those buyers who want a more satisfying gaming experience then what Angry Birds can give. But even that's a mute point, Nvidia aren't really retailers and don't have the brand name to drive volume sales of own branded products. This is technical showcase to the likes of LG, Sony, Samsung to say 'look at what your missing'.

I more annoyed with the lack of reviews for this product on launch day which do look at things like battery life. This is the 2nd product launch in a row that has bypassed the press probably to avoid negativity. Until I see a full review on Anandtech I won't even consider buying.

 

[Tohrazer]

interesting concept

 

[Buckster]

Well there's the problem. You don't understand who Nvidia are pitching this product to or what Shield tablet is all about. People who are buying into Shield DO care about the GPU it has as this isn't a mainstream product Shield is for those buyers who want a more satisfying gaming experience then what Angry Birds can give. But even that's a mute point, Nvidia aren't really retailers and don't have the brand name to drive volume sales of own branded products. This is technical showcase to the likes of LG, Sony, Samsung to say 'look at what your missing'.

I more annoyed with the lack of reviews for this product on launch day which do look at things like battery life. This is the 2nd product launch in a row that has bypassed the press probably to avoid negativity. Until I see a full review on Anandtech I won't even consider buying.

launch day ? they are not out yet are they ?

unless first batch sold out really quick - I've seen nothing other than pre-order for next month ? hence my original query ref title of thread

 

[Pottsey]

“1) you constantly say how much better the new PowerVR chips are, without any real world tests to back the statements up.”

A bit like you keep saying NVidia have the most powerful tablet GPU with no real evidence to back it up. Never mind the fact the best looking apps and game’s do not run on TK1. EPIC said them self said they couldn’t have dreamed of running the garden Unreal 4 app on anything other than PowerVR metal due to the massive performance it gives. I would be very surprised with TK1 could pull anything that advance off. Until it does it has no right to be called the world’s most powerful tablet GPU.

The Unreal 4 demos on PowerVR are x5 fold more advance then the Unreal 4 demos on TK1. I really didn’t want to turn this into a PowerVR v K1. This should be about K1 V other gaming tablets. As I asked before what does Shield offer over the true gaming tablets? As far as I can see shield isn’t really a gaming tablet it’s a standard tablet that has some gaming software put on. Most of my problems with the Shield tablet are how it’s being marketed as something unique and special when it’s not.

“2) every "good" point people bring up about the new nvidia tablet you have a point to make that a bad point, with no real evidence (throttling, battery, performance)”

I linked to real evidence so how can you say that? I provided links to 5 battery reports and 1 link on throttling, 2 links on performance and the facts on DX12 and OpenGL 4 turned out to be correct and true. It sounds like you just want to ignore evidence instead of posting counter points.

“the current PowerVR based devices on the market (including apple devices) dont match the K1 in performance”

Why are you ignoring all the evidence and links I gave you? The current year old Apple Metal PowerVR based devices beat K1 in performance by a massive amount.

Where is the evidence K1 beats PowerVR with Metal? Where is the evidence K1 has the graphics power to run apps like Zen Garden from Epic? K1 is double the speed of none Metal PowerVR I fully admit that. But Metal is out now and makes PowerVR x7 to x10 faster, so logically Metal is faster than K1.

All of this is mute in the android market anyway. Both chips runs pretty much all Android games at max FPS. In that case the only thing that matters is energy efficiency and battery life. Like I said before what does the Shield tablet offer or bring to the market? It’s got a bunch of pointless fluff features that do nothing useful like DX12 and OpenGL 4. It cannot run any extra games the streaming can be done without shield. Why pick Shield over any other gaming tablet? The other gaming tablets have better battery life, a better controller, the same game streaming and play all the same games.

NVidia don’t seem to realize there is already an establish gaming tablet market. Which is why their marketing hype has rubbed many players the wrong way. Not just me, I was reading other forums with comments along the same lines.

“People who are buying into Shield DO care about the GPU it has as this isn't a mainstream product Shield is for those buyers who want a more satisfying gaming experience then what Angry Birds can give.”

That’s the bit I don’t get. So it’s for buyers who want more then Angry Birds but it offers nothing over any other tablet for gamers? Like I asked before why use shield over your current tablet or any other gaming tablet? Why not just Limelight, Splashtop or even Steam streaming which many say is better as its works with both AMD or NVidia desktop GPUs and gives you the full Steam library on your tablet? Players have been playing Half Life 2, Portal and other Steam games on our tablets for years and here is NVidia saying look at our tablet the only one that can do it. What type of response did they expect?

 

[Apache14]

A bit like you keep saying NVidia have the most powerful tablet GPU with no real evidence to back it up.

How about :-

http://www.futuremark.com/hardware/...droidios?_ga=1.84591321.1747922013.1406372876

https://gfxbench.com/compare.jsp?be...s+(D6502,+D6503,+D6543,+D6563,+SO-03F)&cols=2 (Xperia Z2 vs Xiaomi MiPad)

(Remember that the Nvidia Tablet will probably run better at 1080p and with better cooling)

Where is the evidence K1 beats PowerVR with Metal? Where is the evidence K1 has the graphics power to run apps like Zen Garden from Epic? K1 is double the speed of none Metal PowerVR I fully admit that. But Metal is out now and makes PowerVR x7 to x10 faster, so logically Metal is faster than K1.

Did i ever bring metal (an apple only API into the mix ?) no ..... that would be like comparing AMD Mantle on windows 8 to Nvidia OpenGL on Linux, You just cant compare the two. Any real comparisons have to be made on the same GFX API (and the same OS if available). But as the 6 series PowerVR chips have such low uptake in android that isnt possible at the moment.

In fact iOS (only supporting a few hw variations) would expected to be much more refined in the driver department .... making any TK1 wins against it even better. I mean even the T4 beats the iPad Air in futuremark >.<

 

[murah]

It will be all fun and game's until your pc crashes while your away from home or your router over heats crashing the net,

Still seems a little niche for my liking when I can pick up a fairly decent laptop for £400 and game on the fly albeit with reduced graphic settings compared to my home PC.
Most places I go I'm not going to want to game, and the few times I do I can live without leaving my PC on 24/7 at home waiting for me to decide if I want to game or not.

So I can see this being useful if it's too hot in your room and you want to game from the garden but other than that it's not for me

 

[Pottsey]

(Remember that the Nvidia Tablet will probably run better at 1080p and with better cooling)

There is no evidence I have seen for that. Steam streaming runs fine at 1080p and it works on AMD GPU’s as well I have been told. Got an NVidia GPU myself so cannot test but I have been told its better then shield streaming.

I sort of see you point about metal. But if the best mobile games are on Apple and best graphics are on Metal Apple how can we ignore that and go TK1 is best and most powerful GPU even though it cannot run the most advance graphics or more advance apps? If K1 isn't powerful enough to run the metal apps how can we call K1 the most powerful?

What it comes down to it if you want the best graphics and best mobile games you go Ipad. If you want to stream games it doesn’t really matter what you go for almost any tablet is suitable although x86 tablets have an edge. If you want Android games it doesn’t matter what you go for as all the main GPU’s run all the main Android games at max graphics at max speed. Like I keep asking what is the selling point or reason to go for Shield? What does it offer?

 

[Apache14]

If K1 isn't powerful enough to run the metal apps how can we call K1 the most powerful?

Its not how "powerful" the GPU is its how well optimized the API is for that specific platform, and what hardware is supported. In the same way nvidia GPU's could run the AMD mantle API if it supported them (and see a performance increase over DX/OpenGL).

I agree that developers can do more with metal (and any other platform optimized GFX API) i mean look at the console systems (they all run a H/W optimized version of DX on Xbox or OpenGL on PlayStation). But you still cant compare GPU's using those HW specific API's to those that are not (at least on a HW standpoint). And as (within the android / Linux environment where Tegra exists) there are non of these API's, the comparison has to happen using OpenGL.


Edit the 1080p comments was more battery related.the of Xiaomi MiPad has a 2048 x 1536. These high resolution screens draw a LOT more power than 720 or 1080 variations. (and on a <15" device has no advantage imo)

 

[Pottsey]

Edit the 1080p comments was more battery related.the of Xiaomi MiPad has a 2048 x 1536. These high resolution screens draw a LOT more power than 720 or 1080 variations. (and on a <15" device has no advantage imo)

I wonder if the lower resolution will cancel out smaller battery in the shield, hadn’t thought of it like that.

I agree on resolution and <15" with one exception which doesn’t apply to everyone. The main reason I have a tablet is to output to 1920x1080 to a projector. The idea is to pass the tablet around for people to select what to watch. Works better than a TV box and TV subscription. As far as I know most if not all tablets only output the same resolution as the screen. For people like me a <15 1920x1080 is pretty useful.

 

[Gregster]

I wonder if the lower resolution will cancel out smaller battery in the shield, hadn’t thought of it like that.

I agree on resolution and <15" with one exception which doesn’t apply to everyone. The main reason I have a tablet is to output to 1920x1080 to a projector. The idea is to pass the tablet around for people to select what to watch. Works better than a TV box and TV subscription. As far as I know most if not all tablets only output the same resolution as the screen. For people like me a <15 1920x1080 is pretty useful.

Shield 2 outputs 4K to an external device.

 

[bru]

Pottsey can you list the games that you can play now, on the PowerVR Ipad using metal please.

 

[bru]

Again not true from NVidia. This is from a phone not even a tablet

These are 1 year old phone GPU’s doing what NVidia say only they can do.

Laughing out Loud, I think you might want to look at that again.

That is someone playing trine on the Wii U tablet and recording it on their Iphone.

 

[bru]

So the bottom line is that IOS 8 is not out for a couple of months, Metal will be coming with IOS 8, developers will have to adapt games to use Metal, much like with AMD's Mantle, which of course takes time.
This tablet is available now, (in the US, 14 August in Europe, why Nvidia why) but the new Ipads will cost about 50% more.

But this new Nvidia Sheild tablet is late to the market.