Spain.
Islam was a significant part of the country for hundreds of years, before they were kicked out en masse.
Loads of them moved in recently though, and I can't think of any other examples of the top of my head.
Woman beheaded in London
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Spain.
Islam was a significant part of the country for hundreds of years, before they were kicked out en masse.
Loads of them moved in recently though, and I can't think of any other examples of the top of my head.
But seriously, have you ever spoken to a muslim in real life? On an informal basis I mean, not where they are serving you, or you're handing them some nuggets and fries.
@ JudgeNeo: Yep, that was my first thought however the irony is now swathes of it have been taken over by Russian mafiosa. 
Which of course is the irony here. All these people worried about Islam taking over because of a very small number high-profile incidents and whilst that is happening Russian derived organised gangs are subverting out very society with illegal immigration, drug import, people trafficking, manipulating the illegal sex trade. Something that is directly causing massive problems.
I mentioned it in another thread here too but got shouted down because I also mentioned that I do think that there is a fundamental problem with Islam and any other belief like it. It encourages and promotes lack of enquiry and obedience to dogma. That I believe is undesirable. That is not being anti-Islam or racist or whatever people want to suggest I am - that is being against people not thinking stuff through and blindly following orders.
Religion is not the only problem - anything that subverts the role of religion and copies its control techniques by promoting anything to the level of a god causes the same effect. Mohammed, Jesus, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Emperor Hirohito - all these people are unquestionable according to their laws and therefore people are able to condone and justify actions in their name when any sane person would question them - the same could actually be levelled at Uncle Sam. That is the irony of religion people saying look at all these killings in the name of atheism - they weren't in the name of atheism they were undertook using the concept of the unquestionable designer.
Which of course is the irony here. All these people worried about Islam taking over because of a very small number high-profile incidents and whilst that is happening Russian derived organised gangs are subverting out very society with illegal immigration, drug import, people trafficking, manipulating the illegal sex trade. Something that is directly causing massive problems.
I mentioned it in another thread here too but got shouted down because I also mentioned that I do think that there is a fundamental problem with Islam and any other belief like it. It encourages and promotes lack of enquiry and obedience to dogma. That I believe is undesirable. That is not being anti-Islam or racist or whatever people want to suggest I am - that is being against people not thinking stuff through and blindly following orders.
Religion is not the only problem - anything that subverts the role of religion and copies its control techniques by promoting anything to the level of a god causes the same effect. Mohammed, Jesus, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Emperor Hirohito - all these people are unquestionable according to their laws and therefore people are able to condone and justify actions in their name when any sane person would question them - the same could actually be levelled at Uncle Sam. That is the irony of religion people saying look at all these killings in the name of atheism - they weren't in the name of atheism they were undertook using the concept of the unquestionable designer.
Have you ever spoken to David Cameron in real life? Or Ed Miliband?
Probably not, but you probably did see them on TV. Like there have been literally hundreds of muslims speaking on TV. There was a very recent debate on the BBC where out of 7 muslims interviewed, 3 wanted a muslim revolution in this country.
And of course I know people who live/have lived in London, and also Birmingham.
And then we can look at history. At current events. At the quotes from the quran. Listen to debates from experts.
Does not having a muslim friend invalidate all the multitude of evidence literally all around us? I guess if you're a liberal, then living in Cornwall means you can't possibly have an opinion, because you're not living in the multicultural promised land.
If all you ever knew of the human race was what you saw reported on the news, you would build up rather a different picture of mankind than if you spent time living among us.
Normal muslims in the UK, being the vast majority of the muslim population, are not so different to you or me (well, maybe not you
) in that they just want to get on with peacefully living their lives in the way they choose, with the minimum of fuss.I don't blame you for building up such a picture of muslims when your experience of them is so slanted, but you really should temper your opinion with the knowledge that the information you are using is incomplete.
I don't accept that argument. It's like saying none of us really know what the Nazis were like because we never spoke to any of them. Because everything in history books is biased by "the media" to support "the media agenda". Because recorded eye-witness accounts are not first hand information.
It is simply an attempt to silence criticism.
It is simply an attempt to silence criticism.
As with the Nazis, we should oppose extremism and attempts to bring harm from those espousing it.
With the Nazis, the extremism took over at the top of the organisation (Germany), and cast its evil over the population (who were, in many ways, also victims of the regime).
The Nazis were evil, but German people were not.
Similarly (though not a true comparison, since the leaders of Islamic faiths are not (yeah, exceptions) prescribing the hate, unlike the nazis), the extreme muslims can be considered evil without meaning ALL muslims are evil.
ps. "evil" wasn't a great choice of words, I concede.
You do understand how stats work right? That seven is not even a vague hint of a possibility of an inkling of a random sample? It's just anecdote, and thus valueless. I'll bet money that selection was either a) self-selected or b) chosen from a larger group to be as controversial as possible. Because obviously no TV company would deliberately select people with fanatical views just to drum up viewers.
As to the start of this Muslim-bashing thread #352, I've not seen any suggestion that this is anything other than a random nutter. But here's the thing: if a Christian nutter commits a murder because he thinks God told him to, he's a nutter. But if a Muslim nutter commits a murder because he thinks God told him to, he's a fanatic. How does that work? (Apart from the obvious answer: bigotry).
Come to Birmingham, i will introduce you to some of my Muslim firends and you will soon realize that we are all on the same page pretty much.
That is simply not true?
I have no problem with what I term 'Westernised Muslims'. They are peaceful, bring added culture to the UK and other countries, and most wouldn't stick out from average Joe. Normal civilised people.
However, go to a Muslim country and the average Muslim over there is different to a Westernised one. By our standards they a considered extreme, but that is their teaching and their beliefs (FGM, stonings, death sentances for example). You just have to accept it is their way of life.
Then there is IS. Extreme of the extreme. Nasty scum of the earth.
To say the majority of the Muslim population behaves like ones you will find in Western society is just simply not true.
Not quite sure what you were trying to get at saying the above quote either.
I'd agree with most of that. It's creep...creep...creep and before you know it there is a point of no return. Bit like the frog in a pot being boiled. Slowly so as to not notice but when it does notice it's too late.
But the point I was making is that *everything* you know about the Nazis comes from books, or "the media" who you distrust so much.
You never spoke to a Nazi. You probably never spoke to a person who actually saw the inside of a concentration camp. Etc, etc. Same with the Romans, or the Brazillian football team.
Are you going to say that everything in the media is biased, and must be discounted as evidence? Also in history books? That the only valid way to judge islam is to talk to British muslims? How many should you talk to? One? Ten? All of them?
You are presenting a problem which you have made impossible to solve. No one can realistically talk to all muslims in this country, therefore since we are not allowed to use statistics, or anything on TV or in the papers, you are basically saying we can't judge. Period.
Because talking to just a handful of muslims (the "moderates") is not going to get you any closer to an accurate picture of islam in this country, is it?
There was a poll from 20 universities in UK. Some 800 Muslims took part. It was either 23% or 33% thought it was justified to kill in the name of religion.
Either one of those figures is too high for that kind of thought.
If all you ever knew of the human race was what you saw reported on the news, you would build up rather a different picture of mankind than if you spent time living among us.
Normal muslims in the UK, being the vast majority of the muslim population, are not so different to you or me (well, maybe not you
I don't blame you for building up such a picture of muslims when your experience of them is so slanted, but you really should temper your opinion with the knowledge that the information you are using is incomplete.
Why don't the moderate muslims take a stand and say "this is NOT in our name"? That's my issue. There's the element of not betraying a fellow muslim, involved at times which goes against everything this country stands for.
Soldato
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That is simply not true?
However, go to a Muslim country and the average Muslim over there is different to a Westernised one. By our standards they a considered extreme, but that is their teaching and their beliefs (FGM, stonings, death sentances for example). You just have to accept it is their way of life.
.
I'm sorry but that is simply not true, it is painfully obvious you have probably not ever left your bedroom but this simply is not the case.
Anyone who has travelled or with a bit of sense would tell you otherwise.
Soldato
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And why is this thread full of Muslim talk, what has the murder of an 82 year old by a mental patient (who isn't muslim) got anything to do with the current topic?
So FGM isn't normal in Muslim countries? Apostasy? Sentences such as stonings, lashes, death? They are all rare things that barely happen in Muslim countries?
I am not hating on them. By our standards they are considered extreme, but they are just behind the times. Liking to us and the crusades. Its a fairly new religion in the grand scheme of things.
Only people I am hating against are IS.
The apologists have already said that study was "deeply flawed" since it doesn't support their own conclusions.
From the same study, 40% strongly agreed, or partly agreed with sharia law for British muslims. Again, the apologists say that doesn't mean what we think it means. There is always a liberal interpretation to excuse everything.
Well I have lived and worked with Egyptians who were Muslims and not once in all the time I hung out with them did religion or Islam ever get mentioned. They were really top blokes too. I understand that phrase "Kill you with Kindness" now. I can hand on heart say that I have not ever met kinder people.
I always think of them guy's when I want to indulge in some good old fashioned Muslim bashing.
Used to smoke a pipe called hubbly bubbly with them.
I always think of them guy's when I want to indulge in some good old fashioned Muslim bashing.
Used to smoke a pipe called hubbly bubbly with them.
Apparently the perp was a recent Muslim convert. Or so someone said on a page or two back?