Soldato
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Turkey was founded as a secular State by Ataturk but Erdogan is trying to make it a Conservative Sunni Islam state, hence the social unrest, censorship issues, etc.
Woman beheaded in London
- Thread starter friddela
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Turkey was founded as a secular State by Ataturk but Erdogan is trying to make it a Conservative Sunni Islam state, hence the social unrest, censorship issues, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Turks_and_Black_Turks
One day that could be us. Most of the Ataturk types tend to live around Istanbul i have actually read on him and i liked him.
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Soldato
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That's not what you were arguing, heck people from the north are different to people from the south, I was hoping that didn't warrant further clarification.
I was arguing your assertions
Which isn't the norm, the picture you are painting isn't true. It isn't their "way of life" and I said if that is your view you probably have never been to any said country to realise it isn't the case.
In fairness he's not the only one. Positions are very entrenched here in shades of black and white. There is one group who see a problem with some Muslims as justifying actions against all Muslims (I am not saying for or against that btw) and there is a group that will defend Muslims no matter what is done in their name or by a member (I am not saying for or against that btw).
I will make an observation though - I have several times been critical of Islam though (including in this thread) and not one of the latter group has responded. Maybe that is what people want to look at - are you talking about the religion Islam or the people who follow it Muslims - because the conclusions you draw will be very difference along with the acceptance of your arguments. The two things are very different and not interchangeable. Say what you actually mean and make sure you understand what the other person is actually saying.
I will make an observation though - I have several times been critical of Islam though (including in this thread) and not one of the latter group has responded. Maybe that is what people want to look at - are you talking about the religion Islam or the people who follow it Muslims - because the conclusions you draw will be very difference along with the acceptance of your arguments. The two things are very different and not interchangeable. Say what you actually mean and make sure you understand what the other person is actually saying.
People from the North and South hardly differ on a scale like this? You lot love chips 'n' gravy, us southerners don't. At most our political allegiances differ.
We don't disagree on the laws of the land, and if sharia law should be implemented or is it alright to kill in the name of religion... C'mon dude, you make sensible arguments and good points, but comparing the North and South of England to a UK born Muslim and a Iraqi Muslim is a bit off the mark.
a muslim saying he wants to live in peace and has no intention of harming anybody,,,why would that make the news
Well I have lived and worked with Egyptians who were Muslims and not once in all the time I hung out with them did religion or Islam ever get mentioned. They were really top blokes too. I understand that phrase "Kill you with Kindness" now. I can hand on heart say that I have not ever met kinder people.
I always think of them guy's when I want to indulge in some good old fashioned Muslim bashing.
Used to smoke a pipe called hubbly bubbly with them.
You're not going to fit in here very well
a muslim saying he wants to live in peace and has no intention of harming anybody,,,why would that make the news
Maybe because the last 100 years has shown some remarkable situations where mass peaceful protests have shaped the policies of the worlds most powerful regimes. There is no harm in trying it again and undermining popular support - which there obviously is to some extent.
Soldato
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It's not a comparison, that should be pretty clear....
Like I said it isn't the norm, the people are rather friendly and hospitable and not extreme. They can be laid back (most are), understanding and tolerable.
way to miss the point but do carry on...
Soldato
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It's not a comparison, that should be pretty clear....
Like I said it isn't the norm, the people are rather friendly and hospitable and not extreme. They can be laid back (most are), understanding and tolerable.
That's not missing the point - that's a valid suggestion of what should happen.
I haven't got a favourite religion i know they're all wrong, Islam would be right up there as one of my least favourite as they seem to make heavy demands of their adherents, however i don't let my views colour how i interact with religious folk and would never act in a negative manner based upon my disagreement.
I do however hate bullies, nazis and other sundry racists of any colour because of the way they act or even think as it's so evidently wrong and imho evil.
I hate the individual Muslim's who act in a terroristic manner but not those who just fight against injustice or the vast majority who try to get along and live their lives in a civil manner wherever they may find themselves.
Most of the conservative members of British society would be conservative Iranians if they'd been born in Iran, it's just a combination of personality types and cultural environment.
then share with us what it was the point i was making and how you're post was relevant to it.
I think most of us accept it's not the norm. However even you have to concede that there are truly significant numbers of Muslim wackjobs out there. They're more prevalent than any other group and certainly more extreme in their methods. Take boko harem, SI, Hezbollah, al qaeda and the taliban as just a few examples.
Yes, they are well and truly in the minority, but just from those groups and their offshoots alone were looking at possibly hundreds of thousands of members, certainly tens of thousands. That is still a significant number of people. They're just a few of the more commonly known groups.
These people are all of different races but one religion. Thus the common problem is that religion and that's why people have a problem with it.
My impression is that the point you were making is that if Muslims who were peaceful were to protest the actions of the minority who are not then it would not be deemed newsworthy due to the lack of interest and potential for headline grabbing.
Therefore, my post was directed towards that to point out that actually such campaigns have been successful and very well covered by the press.
If that was not your point then you really need to be more clear.
Soldato
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That's is fair enough, but rather than glossing over that fact. In my opinion such groups have risen or gained momentum as a direct result of meddling and I see it as one possible reaction to the conditions on the ground.
For example ISIS would not have existed if not for the Iraq war. These people are extreme because they live in a extreme environment, lived under occupation for 10 years with no one held accountable for what is deemed an illegal war. Have been marginalised by the powers installed and persecuted against. Ultimately religion is being used as a unifying force to rally support for a will, if not religion it would be race, locality, tribal etc etc That's not to say all are but many are. Hezbollah is a reaction to Israel etc, Taliban, Russia and the US.
Its easy to sit here comfy behind our computers and say why are they all so angry. Where ever such groups exist, is it coincidental the countries themselves are in turmoil?
Also our focus seems to be spotlighted on the middle east, you don't have to look far for barbaric groups that are not Muslim related all over the world from southern America to Africa.
How do we fix this, I think bombs are not the solution since it appears to make the situation worse creating more and more people to have cause to be angry.
Genuine question Craterloads - do you think the Muslim community in this country is doing all it can do to combat the current situation. It is all well and good saying society and the state are not doing the job great we know that but what exactly could the Muslim community do better?