Should police/court/council fines be relative to income?

estebanrey

estebanrey

estebanrey

Soldato
Joined
8 Mar 2007
Posts
10,938
I've always said if I won the Euromillions I'd park where ever I wanted, after all what's £30 to someone who has £50 million in the bank?

A fine is just an easy way of avoiding prison overcrowding for low level misdemeanors but prison is a great leveller. Putting aside that access to private healthcare increases your chances of living longer, we all generally live the same amount of time so a 10 year prison sentence affects rich and poor alike.

However, fines are completely relative to someone's income. a £100 fine to someone on minimum wage can have a huge affect on their life whereas it is nothing to a millionaire. I've heard well-off people say "why should I pay more just because I'm successful" but they wouldn't relatively, they would be paying the same.

So rather than £30 for parking on double yellows and £80 for speeding, it should be 10% of weekly income and 50% respectively.
 
But that way all self employed people would prosper for their unlawful accounting and declaration of business assets. This will not do!
 
No I don't think fines should be a percentage. However it might be a good idea if the judge could increase the fine if there was contempt on the part of the law-breaker.

For example TPOs (anti tree felling orders). Some people will gleefully cut down trees with TPOs on them because the fine isn't that much, and a lot of people just *hate* trees on their property :p

In the case that the action was deliberate and the owner knew of the fine and was prepared to pay the fine, perhaps the punishment should be increased. For contempt of the law.
 
Speeding is different as you'll get points regardless of income which could end up costing your licence. Doesn't matter your net worth losing your licence will hurt (unless you're personal driver kinda rich).

I do agree otherwise :). Although a lot of the rich are quite good at hiding incomes I image it will be difficult to implement correctly.
 
Last edited:
No, they should only be relevant to the harm caused. Justice is supposed to be equal, which means that the same crime in the same circumstances should receive a consistent punishment.
 
Dolph said:
No, they should only be relevant to the harm caused. Justice is supposed to be equal, which means that the same crime in the same circumstances should receive a consistent punishment.
Click to expand...

True and i don't think it should change but punishment is designed to discourage repeated behaviour. Unless massive the rich can shrug them off.
 
Dolph said:
No, they should only be relevant to the harm caused. Justice is supposed to be equal, which means that the same crime in the same circumstances should receive a consistent punishment.
Click to expand...

In principal yes but the op is suggesting that to higher income individuals there is in fact no punishment as the fine is insignificant and therefore not a deterrent.

Its the same as mr average getting £1 fines, not a deterrent at all
 
Of course they should be relevant to income/wealth, but they never will be in the UK as the Laws here are made by the rich for the poor.
 
Castiel said:
Punishments should be determined by the crime not by the social or financial status of the perpetrator.
Click to expand...

but when the punishment is a financial one then the punishment is essentially different depending on the financial status of the person receiving it

there is some merit to the idea that there could be an adjustment made according to who it is being fined - especially when fines are supposed to act as a deterrent in some cases - such as parking fines, speeding fines... the potential deterrent is less effective on some members of the population.
 
Dolph said:
No, they should only be relevant to the harm caused. Justice is supposed to be equal, which means that the same crime in the same circumstances should receive a consistent punishment.
Click to expand...

a consistent punishment could be (in theory) say being fined 1% of your gross income last year for X offence...

consistent but also applied proportionally...
 
estebanrey said:
A fine is just an easy way of avoiding prison overcrowding for low level misdemeanors
Click to expand...
Wrong. A fine is supposed to be compensation for damages when passed by lawful judgement.
Nearly all fines these days are from victimless crimes, where there is no injured party, and are passed by magistrates. It is a giant money making scam.
The MOJ and police forces are being used to generate revenue, and no one can bloody see it.

Fines should only be given out when the injured party deserves compensation, and they should be relative to the damages caused, no more no less.
 
dowie said:
but when the punishment is a financial one then the punishment is essentially different depending on the financial status of the person receiving it
Click to expand...

No.

Every person should be treated equally under the law, if a crime is punishable by a fine then the fine should be determined by the severity and nature of the crime, not by the nature and status of the individual committing it.
 
Castiel said:
No.

Every person should be treated equally under the law, if a crime is punishable by a fine then the fine should be determined by the severity and nature of the crime, not by the nature and status of the individual committing it.
Click to expand...

But a fixed fine of £100 is more of a punishment to those without liquidity - so whilst the fine is the same, is the punishment truly equal?
 
stopper said:
Wrong. A fine is supposed to be compensation for damages when passed by lawful judgement.
Nearly all fines these days are from victimless crimes, where there is no injured party, and are passed by magistrates. It is a giant money making scam.
The MOJ and police forces are being used to generate revenue, and no one can bloody see it.

Fines should only be given out when the injured party deserves compensation, and they should be relative to the damages caused, no more no less.
Click to expand...

I think speeding is fined for a pretty obvious reason ie to prevent an injured party.
Parking fines are to keep the street clear in certain areas for residents/safety(ignoring the private parking bit).


Admittedly I've never understood the reasoning behind a speed fine on a quiet road where the only person you're going to injure is yourself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom