Tory Government to take from the poor to give to the old?

Soldato
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Just wondering what the general OCUK consensus is on the Chancellor's announcement yesterday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29402844

Working tax credits, child benefit, housing benefit will be frozen for two years, whilst pension rises will be "protected". No attempts made to cut the pension benefit, even to the richest pensioners.

Low-income Working families stand to lose in the region of £400-£500 per year through the freeze, according to Conservative officials (a working couple with one child, with each earning £13,000 a year, would lose £44 a year in child benefit and £310 a year in tax credits. A household with a single earner and two children would lose £75 a year in child benefit and £420 in tax credits.)

It reminded me a little of the "bedroom tax". A policy which I, somewhat, felt was not unreasonable in theory (assuming, unrealistically, that smaller houses were actually available to give people the choice to downsize and avoid the "tax"), but which was undermined by the exemption give to (of course) OAPs. OAPs who, often, are living in family council houses long after their children have left.

I can understand why a Tory government might make such moves - a very large and vocal part of the Tory vote is at or near pension age, whilst the young don't vote as much, don't vote blue as much and, for under 18s, who will be hit hardest by cuts to family income, are not allowed to vote.

But I can't understand why the general public accept such regressive policies. Why do we pump so much cash into an unproductive, relatively wealthy section of society when the opportunity is there to assist current and future generations to be more productive and engaged with society?

So, GD, what do you think?

TLDR:
Is it fair and equitable to reduce income for poor working families whilst protecting income for all pensioners, a wealthier demographic?
 
The working poor have been hit hardest by austerity. If we have to choose between the two, wealthier pensioners should get less.

However I'd prefer to cut other budgets first, e.g. military, and change to law to force large tax avoiders to pay more.
 
"even to the richest pensioners." You've said it all there, not all pensioners are rich, my parents certainly aren't and are taxed heavily on their pensions, still have to pay all the costs we do and they worked for 40+ years for that pension.

We shouldn't have to trade off one section of society against another when neither is wealthy, we should be closing tax loop holes, ensuring corporations are held to account and increasing corporate fines for those who break the law.
 
It's cynical but a vote winner because old people vote, while young people don't because they naively believe "it doesn't change anything". This government have been shafting the young since they got in and like someone said in Speaker's Corner, with the Tories you know what you're going to get - more of the same :(
 
"even to the richest pensioners." You've said it all there, not all pensioners are rich, my parents certainly aren't and are taxed heavily on their pensions, still have to pay all the costs we do and they worked for 40+ years for that pension.
To be fair, if they're taxed at all, then they are probably richer than the poor families we are talking about here.

We shouldn't have to trade off one section of society against another when neither is wealthy, we should be closing tax loop holes, ensuring corporations are held to account and increasing corporate fines for those who break the law.
Well, some pensioners ARE wealthy. But we don't cut their benefits.

Many pensioners are comfortably well off. We don't cut their pension benefit either. Or their housing benefit.

We cut child benefit for rich workers, but we don't cut pension benefit for rich non-workers.
 
How are the people on benefits losing out? It's just a freeze so that the rates don't increase. Surely that's not a loss? I suppose you *could* mention it's a net loss in relation to inflation, but I've not got a raise in 3 years, so should I complain that I'm losing money?
 
It's disgusting policy built on disgusting rhetoric. Despite Osborne's nonsense about welfare being unaffordable, the bill is not high (relative to GDP or GNI) by historical standards and while the overall bill is rising that's mostly down to the absurdly generous settlement for pensioners brought in by the coalition's triple lock.

The freeze on benefit increases isn't even the worst of the policy announcements.
 
How do these people lose out £400-£500 a year if the benefits are frozen for two years, they still get them don't they?

:confused:
 
I'm guessing they mean the amount their benefits would have increased by if they weren't frozen?
Yes. 2 years of 0% increase compared with an inflationary rise (like the OAPs get)

How are the people on benefits losing out? It's just a freeze so that the rates don't increase. Surely that's not a loss? I suppose you *could* mention it's a net loss in relation to inflation, but I've not got a raise in 3 years, so should I complain that I'm losing money?
Off topic, but yes. Take it up with your employer. We're not in a recession any more, don't accept it.
 
I'm guessing they mean the amount their benefits would have increased by if they weren't frozen?

their benefits go up by £400 - £500 per year!! holy crap!! seems to be a lot of money in my book.

i think people seem to forget we have a deficit that is still out of control its so huge. why does everyone want to revert to labours way of just borrow borrow borrow, spend spend spend. they don't even want to cut the deficit any more by the looks of it.

peoples memories are very short it seems.
 
their benefits go up by £400 - £500 per year!! holy crap!! seems to be a lot of money in my book.

i think people seem to forget we have a deficit that is still out of control its so huge. why does everyone want to revert to labours way of just borrow borrow borrow, spend spend spend. they don't even want to cut the deficit any more by the looks of it.

peoples memories are very short it seems.

Those figures are after two years of freeze (so half it for annual rise).

And debt isn't out of control. We're approximately at the same level of debt/GDP as France, and a bit higher than Germany. And, get this, we're growing much faster than Germany.

Don't believe the rhetoric.
 
their benefits go up by £400 - £500 per year!! holy crap!! seems to be a lot of money in my book.

Not really. It's a small amount of money each week.

i think people seem to forget we have a deficit that is still out of control its so huge. why does everyone want to revert to labours way of just borrow borrow borrow, spend spend spend. they don't even want to cut the deficit any more by the looks of it.

Well, firstly because what you've written is totally untrue: Labour didn't borrow, borrow, borrow to spend, spend, spend - the debt barely increased in real terms until the Credit Crunch hit. Our current mess is the result of a global economic crisis not rampant Labour profligacy.

Secondly, the coalition has been profoundly ineffective in getting the deficit down. This is because their cut-heavy-and-fast, don't bother raising taxes, method of "dealing with the deficit" throttled the life out of the recovery Labour had built (remember the economy was growing when Osborne got his hands on it) and led to three long years of stagnant growth.

Labour's policy for the next parliament is to balance the books two years later than the Tories. It does not sound like much but it frees up around £30bn in spending.
 
their benefits go up by £400 - £500 per year!! holy crap!! seems to be a lot of money in my book.

i think people seem to forget we have a deficit that is still out of control its so huge. why does everyone want to revert to labours way of just borrow borrow borrow, spend spend spend. they don't even want to cut the deficit any more by the looks of it.

peoples memories are very short it seems.

How is it a lot of money, £40 a month wow big spender...
 
their benefits go up by £400 - £500 per year!! holy crap!! seems to be a lot of money in my book.

i think people seem to forget we have a deficit that is still out of control its so huge. why does everyone want to revert to labours way of just borrow borrow borrow, spend spend spend. they don't even want to cut the deficit any more by the looks of it.

peoples memories are very short it seems.

It's not a huge amount really, £30-40/month.

My food bill alone has increased by that much for the last few years, never mind all the other bills, council tax, rent, etc.
 
OT:

What was the deficit before the coalition came into power, and what is it now? Also what did they say they would get it down to?
 
I really don't 'get' inflation. If you pay someone 1-2% more per year because 'inflation', either through salary increases or increases in benefits payments. Doesn't that result in more... inflation??? i.e. your paying to counter the thing, but in doing so you actually makes the thing bigger :-/
 
So what is the incentive to work and make your own way in the world?

The reward for not being a lazy drugy is to have a good pension and enjoy life, as you know you earnt it.

Where as benefit schemies, largely do not earn it. Benefits should be categorised by the amount you put it and you cannot claim anything until you reach a threshold of tax payment, why should 16 year old single mums get a free house?
 
What was the deficit before the coalition came into power, and what is it now? Also what did they say they would get it down to?

It was around 11%, it's now about 6.5% and it's expected to be around 5.5% by the election. They pledged to completely eliminate it within this parliament.

Incidentally, much of that difference can be accounted for by growth and cuts Labour scheduled whilst in power.
 
OT:

What was the deficit before the coalition came into power, and what is it now? Also what did they say they would get it down to?

No one promised a deficit reduction this is the comedy of our socialist country.

All politicians want to do is cut the borrowing not stop borrowing rate and pay the debt back
 
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