what's making all the girls/women join isis?

ooo lookey here - another thread to bash Islam and have a go at dem der muslamics. Like we havn't got enough threads on ISIS already, some numpty goes and opens another one to keep it going.

save your breath mrk - its the same fools posting the same drivel (note all the posters are noted members of the ocuk anti-muslamic brigade). They are not here to reason and discuss - simply peddle their bigotry and hatred. peace out
 
dowie said:
it is a religious belief/interpretation of a religion that has allowed them to view at least some of these other muslims as non-believers and it is religious leadership within ISIS that has decided that these people can be justly killed, that they can fight other sunni who are not following their cause
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Do you have a reference for that ? can you quote the relevant passage from the Quran i'm guessing you got this from.
 
zoomee, you have to be more understanding. There are people who have problems, frustrations, all kinds of issues and they don't know who to blame for it. It's obviously not their fault. It therefore must be the Muslims, the immigrants, the (ultra)liberals etc.
 
chief barker said:
They want to “belong to something special.”

“They want to find something meaningful for their life,”

“Some are thrill seeking, some are seeking redemption.”

Those who join terrorist groups like ISIS are the most "ignorant people with respect to religion and they are generally the newest members to the religion."

"They would probably fail the most basic test on Islam"
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"Terrorist" groups such as IS have existed since the foundation of Islam, and indeed Muhammad himself could have been considered a terrorist by some, and all the Caliphs would be considered terrorist by most.
 
Stretch said:
"Terrorist" groups such as IS have existed since the foundation of Islam, and indeed Muhammad himself could have been considered a terrorist by some, and all the Caliphs would be considered terrorist by most.
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Don't forget to add the Christians to the terrorist groups (Library of Alexandria, Sacking of Constantinopole etc.).
 
Zethor said:
zoomee, you have to be more understanding. There are people who have problems, frustrations, all kinds of issues and they don't know who to blame for it. It's obviously not their fault. It therefore must be the Muslims, the immigrants, the (ultra)liberals etc.
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Well it isn't Hindu fundamentalists currently fighting in Syria/Iraq....
 
Amnesia said:
Do you have a reference for that ? can you quote the relevant passage from the Quran i'm guessing you got this from.
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If you're looking for a relevant passage in the Quaran covering whether Shia or anyone else are 'proper' Muslims or not then you're not going to find it. ISIS believe they aren't... Seemingly some people believe ISIS members aren't and so on... thus there are plenty of different Islamic groups, interpretations of Islam and no doubt they all think they're the ones with the correct views/beliefs.

There are plenty of Quaran versus covering Jihad, treatment of non-muslims etc.. interpretation of these is the issue. That is part of the justification for execution of shia, taking women as sex slaves etc... If you want me to quote specific versus and so you can start arguing over their interpretation then this is going to be a bit pointless - I already appreciate that there are different interpretations and the fundamentalist ones are obviously not accepts by all Muslims.
 
dowie said:
If you're looking for a relevant passage in the Quaran covering whether Shia or anyone else are 'proper' Muslims or not then you're not going to find it. ISIS believe they aren't... Seemingly some people believe ISIS members aren't and so on... thus there are plenty of different Islamic groups, interpretations of Islam and no doubt they all think they're the ones with the correct views/beliefs.

There are plenty of Quaran versus covering Jihad, treatment of non-muslims etc.. interpretation of these is the issue. That is part of the justification for execution of shia, taking women as sex slaves etc... If you want me to quote specific versus and so you can start arguing over their interpretation then this is going to be a bit pointless - I already appreciate that there are different interpretations and the fundamentalist ones are obviously not accepts by all Muslims.
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No i just want the part that gives them the right to judge who is muslim or not and where it says you can kill those who don't interpret the quran the same way they do.
 
Amnesia said:
No i just want the part that gives them the right to judge who is muslim or not and where it says you can kill those who don't interpret the quran the same way they do.
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but that *is* the problem - there is no standard interpretation of Islam

people saying ISIS aren't proper Muslims or aren't following Islam have this issue too

what gives people the right to say ISIS aren't proper Muslims or aren't following/have nothing to do with Islam?
 
I think people say that in frustration, they fit the definition of a muslim, submission to one God and belief in his messenger Mohammed(something along those lines).

but i don't see the killing of other muslims as Islamic actions, unless someone can prove otherwise.


So while they do fall under the definition of a muslim, not all their actions can be retributed to Islam.
 
Amnesia said:
I think people say that in frustration, they fit the definition of a muslim, submission to one God and belief in his messenger Mohammed(something along those lines).

but i don't see the killing of other muslims as Islamic actions, unless someone can prove otherwise.


So while they do fall under the definition of a muslim, not all their actions can be retributed to Islam.
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but they've framed (most of)the people who oppose them as non-believers ergo their fundamentalist interpretations of the various contentious passages from the Quran can apply ranging from justifying executing them to justifying taking women as sex slaves
 
zoomee said:
ooo lookey here - another thread to bash Islam and have a go at dem der muslamics. Like we havn't got enough threads on ISIS already,
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Amnesia said:
Do you have a reference for that ? can you quote the relevant passage from the Quran i'm guessing you got this from.
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Zethor said:
zoomee, you have to be more understanding. There are people who have problems, frustrations, all kinds of issues and they don't know who to blame for it. It's obviously not their fault. It therefore must be the Muslims, the immigrants, the (ultra)liberals etc.
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Oooooo nearly, all i need now is a post from Craterloads and i can complete my extremists sympathizers bingo card.
 
Well if you're going to call me an extremist sympathizer..
.can you at least use a better quote.

Asking for a reference doesn't quite cut it.
 
dowie said:
but they've framed (most of)the people who oppose them as non-believers ergo their fundamentalist interpretations of the various contentious passages from the Quran can apply ranging from justifying executing them to justifying taking women as sex slaves
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I understand what you're saying but am still lost on which part of the Quran they can be using to justify it.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist but i've never heard of that before.
usually it's the usual ...they don't follow it correctly and that's where you get the different sects.
or is the above what you were referring to ?
 
Zethor said:
Don't forget to add the Christians to the terrorist groups (Library of Alexandria, Sacking of Constantinopole etc.).
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I'm not a Christian, and I wouldn't defend any act commit in the name of Christianity, or any other religion for that matter.

However, the events you refer to happened many hundreds of years ago, in a world that was very different to where we live today.

Violence seem to be intrinsically permissible (or even encouraged) in Islam, in ways that simply don't apply to other religions.

Part of the problem I see with Islam is a lack of an absolute moral authority. It's a very chaotic religion. In the Christian world they have a Pope or Archbishop, and global command structure. What they say is largely respected, and they are normally semi-decent human beings.

In Islam, it seems any old Abdul or Mohammed with a copy of the Quran and an axe to grid can be a leader of "Muslims", and no one can tell them they're wrong.

In this respect, Islam is the most disorganized of organised religions, and it's no surprise it promotes more that its fair share of whackos.
 
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Amnesia said:
I understand what you're saying but am still lost on which part of the Quran they can be using to justify it.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist but i've never heard of that before.
usually it's the usual ...they don't follow it correctly and that's where you get the different sects.
or is the above what you were referring to ?
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well yes... I was assuming it wouldn't be new information to you that fundamentalists point to certain parts of the Quran as justification for their actions... I've been reluctant to post any as I've already pointed out that a lot of it is contentious and it is quite easy to dismiss as having a different meaning or being out of context and actually should be interpreted as x etc....

The behaviour of mohammed himself too can be cited - it isn't as though he didn't murder captives, take women as concubines etc... (and obviously there are also moderate objections about this to with regards to context etc..etc..etc..)
If you're genuinely saying that you're unaware that there are contentious passages in the Quran that are used by fundamentalists and you want me to cite examples then here are two that may be used as an example - there are plenty more...

4:24 could be used to justify sex slaves
And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you
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5:33 could be used for justifying executions of people opposed to them:
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement
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And before anyone starts saying 'oh but those don't mean x' true Islam is blah blah blah, academics have consensus that this means blah etc..etc..... yes I know there are different interpretations.
 
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Stretch said:
However, the events you refer to happened many hundreds of years ago, in a world that was very different to where we live today.

Violence seem to be intrinsically permissible (or even encouraged) in Islam, in ways that simply don't apply to other religions.
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Certain parts of the Middle East are not that different than they were hundreds of years ago. As for violence being permissible or encouraged by Islam, that's simply not true. The Tatars, a Muslim minority in countries such as Ukraine, Romania, Moldova or Bulgaria, have peacefully lived in Christian Orthodox societies for hundreds of years. The Fundamentalist Islamists from the Middle East and some parts of Africa are not representative for Islam as a whole and they're in fact against major Islamic principles such as Freedom of Religion, as declared by Muhammad himself in the Constitution of Medina.

And before anyone starts saying 'oh but those don't mean x' true Islam is blah blah blah, academics have consensus that this means blah etc..etc..... yes I know there are different interpretations.
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The same type of delusional lyrics can be found in the Bible.

"And if a man sells his daughter to be a female slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who has betrothed her to himself, then he shall let her be redeemed."
 
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