MP3yeeeear!
Will UKIP win its first seat in parliament tonight?
- Thread starter Danthus
- Start date
MP3yeeeear!
^
What a collection of poor deluded souls, people take note, these are who are fine and dandy to sell our country down the river, meanwhile...
toot toot, the EU money gravy train keeps on rolling
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29886824
But hey, it's all good and we don't need that money right?
What a collection of poor deluded souls, people take note, these are who are fine and dandy to sell our country down the river, meanwhile...
toot toot, the EU money gravy train keeps on rolling
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29886824
But hey, it's all good and we don't need that money right?
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Bit puzzled by this as there's nothing in UKIP polices that indicate they want a Surveillance state, so i take it he's talking about voting against EU laws? Simple answer to that, there's nothing the EU do that we can't make laws for ourselves, we don't need more laws from outside this country. so that point is rendered complete fallacy.
You could probably post a link to something but unless it's on the UKIP website i can do what Cosmo pathetically done and claimed 'propaganda and not from the horses mouth'
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Going by your posting history you see racism on the back of a cornflake packet
Out of curiousity, what's your stance on Scotland? Do you think it should be an indepedent country or remain in the UK?
Why even bother asking the question? We voted to stay within the UK, that's that.
it was on one of your youtube videos on a radio phone in that farrage took part in and hosted.
Just for the record i was completely neutral during that, it would have been equally nice for them to stay and i would have completely respected their decision to leave, at least they had the freedom of self-determination and was very happy for them (and a little jealous) they got their referendum.
I didn't ask how you were before the referendum, I'm just curious about your opinion. In your personal view, is Scotland better off in the UK or out of the UK? Or maybe you think the two options are equal?
IMO, taking the long term view, they are better off out of the UK. The plan the SNP put forward though was woefully inadequate, and I argued for them to stay.
The case for UK out of the EU is much more simple. The big questions, and the technical nitpicking, of the Scottish referendum are not applicable to this debate, and its pointless to make further comparisons between the two.
I'm still neutral, i think in the long run it would be just as prosperous but i'm not very interested in the Scottish question now because as Ahleckz puts it, has been answered.
EDIT - Judgeneo beat me to it, Chrome is playing silly buggers with me right now :/
There is a big difference beyond the self-determination point. The UK has been a fully self-governing body for centuries before the EU came along and it's a joke to think they we suddenly be at a loss on how to run the country when we leave the EU
EDIT - Judgeneo beat me to it, Chrome is playing silly buggers with me right now :/
There is a big difference beyond the self-determination point. The UK has been a fully self-governing body for centuries before the EU came along and it's a joke to think they we suddenly be at a loss on how to run the country when we leave the EU
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So it's perfectly OK and prosperous in the long term for Scotland to accept the laws it may not want, made by other people (the English, Welsh and Irish in this case) but it is not OK and not prosperous for the UK to accept such laws made by the EU. My question is very simple, what's the difference?
They voted to stay, that's the difference. I also support full Evo, which they will get and they already make a ton of there own laws and will have more powers as time goes on, something the EU won't even consider for the UK
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I'm not talking about the vote, I'm talking about the principle that you find outrageous in the context of the EU but perfectly acceptable in the context of the UK. It seems to me there's an inconsistency here and I'm wondering what causes it.
The vote is key.
A significant proportion of Scotland was fed up with the principle, and thus it was put to a vote. They voted that the arrangement was acceptable enough to continue. Had I been Scottish, I might well have voted for Independence.
The UK has never had chance, or opportunity for such a vote about the EU. When given the opportunity, I intend to vote to leave.
I don't think that this is a complicated position to hold.
Thanks for putting it so elegantly Judgeneo, Zethor seems to be ignoring the vote, which is a little odd and leading to a bizarre line of questioning that'll will get him nowhere, i see the point he's trying to make but it doesn't work because Scotland had a referrdum
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Thanks for putting it so elegantly Judgeneo, Zethor seems to be ignoring the vote, which is a little odd and leading to a bizarre line of questioning that'll will get him nowhere, i see the point he's trying to make but it doesn't work because Scotland had a referrdum
So the issue isn't that EU is making laws, there's nothing wrong with that, in principle, as long as there's a referendum on being part of it at some point?
I will hate it but i will have to accept the result of the in/out referendum if we vote to say in. Of course up until then i will campaign as much as possible to get out as i don't want to be ruled by the EU, as in principle, everything is wrong about it.
(wait for it, we're almost there.....)
The big eu mistake was letting all the central European countries in when their economies weren't up to spec, work hard in Romania or sign on in UK and get way more if you have a family no brainer.
They should have had their own little trading union for a few decades to get used to capitalism and drag their infrastructure into the 21st century with large aid donations from the eu.
It was the UK who pushed for eu enlargement in the hope that we got more allies within the eu and for our Atlantacist leanings, now we're in this state and i don't like the idea of pulling out but i can see all the sense in the out arguments, I see trouble ahead.
They should have had their own little trading union for a few decades to get used to capitalism and drag their infrastructure into the 21st century with large aid donations from the eu.
It was the UK who pushed for eu enlargement in the hope that we got more allies within the eu and for our Atlantacist leanings, now we're in this state and i don't like the idea of pulling out but i can see all the sense in the out arguments, I see trouble ahead.
I suppose the trouble many of us have is: we've tried asking you guys so many times why ("everything is wrong about EU") or which EU laws are deal breaker for you or what was taken from you by EU, what job position was stolen from you by Janek from Poland or Helenka from Czech Republic and why is UKIP's immigration policy set selectively against EU migrants, even though EU migration only accounts for minority of immigration in Britain, but we never get straight answer.
And what we want is not some "lofty" pub call to arms ("My father bled for this land and I have responsibility to do keep my fatherland proud and strong for the records, for my children, for their children") or newspeak agitation ("the faceless bureaucrats from Brussels shall not dictate me my freedoms") but straight, in particular, direct answer. But the questions are never answered and any attempt of discussion or understanding separatist stance never gets any of us anywhere.
When people point out to you that UK has one of the lower immigration percentages per capita, on continental and world scale, there is no answer. When people point out that the world "free of foreigners" UKIP promises to return to, doesn't exist anywhere in Europe outside of Russia for decades, there are no eloquent replies. When people point out that the stuff UKIP publish as their manifesto sound like drivel written by uneducated teenager (just take this bit as example - "UKIP would not seek to remain in the European Free Trade Area (EFTA) or European Economic Area (EEA)" - so, no EU, EFTA or EEA, but they strongly believe nothing will change and EU will just trade with Britain, like nothing happened? They are going to make special exception just for us or something? Or we will cut their Wispa supplies off? WTF? ), but there is never any explanation as to how all of those miracles are meant to happen. How is the guy who visits Brussels once a months to yell obscenities at everyone going to organise this "non EU, non EFTA, non EEA" treaty. Has he spoken to anyone? No straight answer. Ever.
All we get is "I want out" northern circular. "I want out". Why? "Because I don't want to be ruled by EU". But why? "Because I want Britain to be out".
Without anybody, including Nigel, ever answering such simple questions, both media and us, regular people, just have to presume that at end of it all, UKIP is all about feeding pure xenophobic troll across English suburbia. And considering how carefully selective that xenophobia is, anyone with half a brain will presume that underneath that "EU" trolling, there must be uglier, darker side, one that will "sort out" the "problem" of other, non EU immigrants later. Once the Human Rights Act is "repealed" and the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights is "withdrawn" as the manifesto indicates, perhaps?
That's where not answering simple questions leads boys. It's 40+ years since Idi Amin, we have to do better in political discourse than "because I said so".