Poll: suspension from work

Should the OP be banned?

  • Yes

    Votes: 185 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 45 19.6%
  • Total voters
    230
I am guessing Op works for a certain large clothes and food retailer.

It is quite obvious that he should not be double dipping the discount and if dismissed it will be an issue gaining similar employment in the short term. Resigning may not resolve that if the reference states a disciplinary was ongoing at the time.

The best defence here is to be honest about what happened but point out that it was naivety and that if it was not allowed then the discount should not be applicable to the gift cards. It is a simple matter to put a block on the discount in this scenario so the lack of a block may indicate approval of the process.

Morally he's in the wrong but legally it may not be so clear unless there has been a specific edict to staff that this can't be used (has there?)
 
Contract Contract Contract. What is in your signed employment contract? Does it refer to other policy documents? Were you made aware of them? When were they last updated? Were you apprised or made aware of the updates?

etc etc

Legal fun. In any case, even if you don't get fired or released, (assuming you could afford legal representation), how long have you worked there, and, how easy is it for you to find another job?

These sorts of companies may well hold grudges and put you on the firing line. Let others get up to mischief, then the moment you even have a mischievous thought, you are out the door.
 
Electroshadow said:
i can foresee an unfair dismissal payout in the future :D. The fact this has happened to the company by multiple employees in the past and they have failed to plug the loop hole shows that it is allowed especially if the system allows it and there is no rule against it in the employee hand book..
Loop holes may immoral at times but illegal no.....

if the company don’t want this to happen they should stop it via their systems really wouldn’t be hard. ( no staff discount with gift cards..... end off). the fact they allow this to happen with past instances is negligence on their part.

straight dismissal is an easy unfair dismissal pay out, they should have informed you of your error first, then if you continued dismissal would be fair. I really wouldn’t worry about this, you should charge an IT fault finding fee for pointing this out lol:D

companies arent allowed to give a negative reference nowadays anyway (legal reasons), the worst they can do is give a plain (ok) reference, so i wouldnt worry about that.
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Maybe, the system is that stupid. Ok he sues for unfair dismissal, gets a neutral reference, then has to explain to the next employer or jobcentre why he left his previous employment.

The fact that there is a loophole does not exonerate him or anyone else from using it. If it was so obviously pukka, all employees would be doing it. Not just a few.

Generally the rule is if it appears dodgy or underhand it probably is.
 
OP knew exactly what he was doing and I would wager that he boasted about the fact to a number of people because he was proud that he had scammed the system.

The fact that he was buying stuff for his family using them would mean that he was giving them say a £80 voucher and telling them that they could get something for £100. There is no way that he didn't know he was double dipping and will have used this method to get cheap presents for people.

I have no idea of the legalities of this sort of thing as unless their rules forbid this, I don't see how they could use it as a reason for dismissal. He knows it is wrong, they know its wrong but I doubt you can fire people for doing something you don't like that you didn't warn them about first and that isn't against the rules.
 
Love people posting its "theft".... no it is NOT.

He paid for the items he had.. the issue is wether he was told he could not use discount both times.

Now surely the store manager would see what was going on as surely to god any staff member buying an item had to have it logged and done by another member of staff... usually a superior.

I will say again, if it is not in the staff handbook/procedures then surely he has not commited gross misconduct! He should be given a warning at most and the procedures updated now this loophole has been found.

As for getting near 40% discount i have worked in a couple of jobs where the staff discount was close to this for many items... the mere fact is it close to 40% isnt an auto alarm bell time, it certainly would'nt make me assume i was doing some soft of con anyway. If the tills let it happen and the other members of staff rang it though for me then why would i be alarmed?

Clearly what has happened here is a procedural error and now the matter has been detected it should be acted upon. That does not mean just sacking someone for "theft".... theft is dipping into the stock or tills or assets surely?

He should be told of the problem, maybe a written warning but even than if it is not in the employee procedures i dont see how they can do that, and told not to do it again. End of matter.

Then update the procedures so this cannot happen again.

IF it IS in the procedures then i agree dismissal.
 
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OP's at fault for misuse, intentional or not... but the company really should have measures in place, which they clearly haven't so the blame lies with them ultimately.
Human nature some folks will abuse this type of thing.
 
AtreuS said:
Love people posting its "theft".... no it is NOT.

He paid for the items he had.. the issue is wether he was told he could not use discount both times.

Now surely the store manager would see what was going on as surely to god any staff member buying an item had to have it logged and done by another member of staff... usually a superior.

I will say again, if it is not in the staff handbook/procedures then surely he has not commited gross misconduct! He should be given a warning at most and the procedures updated now this loophole has been found.

As for getting near 40% discount i have worked in a couple of jobs where the staff discount was close to this for many items... the mere fact is it close to 40% isnt an auto alarm bell time, it certainly would'nt make me assume i was doing some soft of con anyway. If the tills let it happen and the other members of staff rang it though for me then why would i be alarmed?

Clearly what has happened here is a procedural error and now the matter has been detected it should be acted upon. That does not mean just sacking someone for "theft".... theft is dipping into the stock or tills or assets surely?
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Sorry but it is theft. Plain as day. Common sense applies.

OP knows he has a 20% discount on purchases. Gaming the system so you get 40% discount instead is theft.
 
OP hasn't been at place of employment for more than 2 years. Doesn't that mean they can just dismiss for any reason without any threat of a tribunal? Or is that out of date?
 
MooMoo444 said:
Sorry but it is theft. Plain as day. Common sense applies.

OP knows he has a 20% discount on purchases. Gaming the system so you get 40% discount instead is theft.
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No...

If it is in the procedures as something you arent allowed to do then yes. If not then i really dont see how you can say that.

The system is broken... not his problem IF and only IF it is not mentioned in the employee handbook. His manager is to blame here for not spotting it earlier, if indeed it is against the rules.

I am betting many on this forum have gotten double discounts on games bought as codes online, or dominoes pizza or even recently the till error at tesco when people got an xboxone and like 3 games for £300 :p

In reality he will prob be made a scapegoat and got rid of and the procedures updated.

If this was somehow an error at say argos, you get discounts using an online code for a voucher then got it again for using the voucher code again it would be all over hotdeals :p
 
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If he gets dismissed I don't think he can go to an employment tribunal as he's not been there for 2 years yet. There are exceptions to that rule but his situation doesn't qualify.

I think it's better to leave before you're pushed though, if that's the likely outcome.
 
Electroshadow said:
companies arent allowed to give a negative reference nowadays anyway (legal reasons), the worst they can do is give a plain (ok) reference, so i wouldnt worry about that.
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Companies are allowed to give negative references. They are not allowed to give inaccurate references. In other words they have to be able to backup their negative reference or face the consequences of possible legal action.

Most companies choose not to give negative references because when an employee has gone, they're no longer their problem. They're someone else's problem.
 
HEADRAT said:
In reality there are lots of "honest" people out there that want a job, not ones abusing their employer (whether documented or not)!
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Sorry i assumed we were discussing the legal arguments here not the moral implications?

I agree morally hes a bit of a nuaghty boy... when he found out it works he morally should have brought it up with his boss there and then.

Legally however there is no such thing as morality :p

If it were me i would have asked my manager when the till let me get the double dip and said "is this allowed boss or not??"
 
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however you want to dress it up and look at it , whether or not it states in the handbook its theft and the company will punish the op.

if the op wants to try and keep his job then admit now it looks like it was wrong to do and offer to pay the monies back.
or just leave, poop though managers letter box, take manager hostage, torture him, end it.
 
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skyripper said:
Companies are allowed to give negative references. They are not allowed to give inaccurate references. In other words they have to be able to backup their negative reference or face the consequences of possible legal action.

Most companies choose not to give negative references because when an employee has gone, they're no longer their problem. They're someone else's problem.
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If he leaves prior to any disciplinary action they would not be able to give a negative reference based upon this incident alone as it remains unresolved and he is essentially not proven to have committed any wrongdoing, it could open them up to legal challenge. If his work was satisfactory otherwise then his reference would reflect that.

You are right insofar that most references these days are simply a record of attendance, duties and attitude and not much else.
 
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