Brazilian Grand Prix 2014, São Paulo - Race 18/19

timmeh · 10 Nov 2014 at 15:13

Rosberg is checking out the good spots for a bit of reversing in quali.

Brundle said that recently he's been getting more and more convinced that Rosberg's Monaco shenanigans was done on purpose. I wonder what's making him say that now, apart from his obvious Hamilton bias.

Also, Hamilton has been very very fast around Abu Shabby every year. Can't see Rosberg beating him to pole.

FrankJH · 10 Nov 2014 at 15:17

Kimi said:
LOL! i haven't seen that for a while, its not as bad as i remember it. Brundle was right when he said Schumi hit the wrong part of him, i wonder what the FIA would have done if he took JV out? would they have disqualified the champion? they didn't with Senna. I feel they had an easier choice with him coming second.

Being DQ for that year was quite harsh imo.

Remember though that th media is so much larger now in all sports, and F1 is also a lot bigger

Whether Senna / Prost style accident would be viewed the same as it was originally ( 25 years ago) is debatable.

94 and 97 incidents with Schumi ( and not forgetting the less dangerous but dubious sportsmanship of Monaco quali) he is lucky to have left the sport with his records in tact

MooMoo444 · 10 Nov 2014 at 15:18

timmeh said:
Rosberg is checking out the good spots for a bit of reversing in quali.

Brundle said that recently he's been getting more and more convinced that Rosberg's Monaco shenanigans was done on purpose.

Source?

Indy500 · 10 Nov 2014 at 15:35

El_Watcher said:
Looking at the accident now, I am amazed they disqualified him for that, when we have seem similar or worse get nothing . In fact, you could almost apportion more blame to Villeneuve for coming from miles behind

Schumacher saved Villeneuve from getting stuck in the gravel by turning in, all he had to do to win was let Jacques slide off because he braked far too late. It was a contrived title decider anyway because of Villenueve's disqualification at Suzuka...

timmeh · 10 Nov 2014 at 15:44

MooMoo444 said:
Source?

It was something he mentioned in commentary during the race.

dannyjo22 · 10 Nov 2014 at 15:53

Kimi said:
LOL! i haven't seen that for a while, its not as bad as i remember it. Brundle was right when he said Schumi hit the wrong part of him, i wonder what the FIA would have done if he took JV out? would they have disqualified the champion? they didn't with Senna. I feel they had an easier choice with him coming second.

Being DQ for that year was quite harsh imo.

Of course it was as bad. The in car tells the story, also with the lower cockpit sides he just 100% went for the accident. The punishment he got was a complete joke. A non punishment. He should have missed races for the start of the next season not lost a place in the championship he didn't care about anyway. After all he still kept all the records and wins, who cares about a runner up spot. Certainly not him.

El_Watcher said:
Looking at the accident now, I am amazed they disqualified him for that, when we have seem similar or worse get nothing . In fact, you could almost apportion more blame to Villeneuve for coming from miles behind

When have you seen worse, poor driving yes but not a deliberate crash like that. Rosberg kept his position, knowing that hamilton had to yield or they would crash. MS went for the crash.

Indy500 said:
Schumacher saved Villeneuve from getting stuck in the gravel by turning in, all he had to do to win was let Jacques slide off because he braked far too late. It was a contrived title decider anyway because of Villenueve's disqualification at Suzuka...

Yep JV sold him the biggest dummy of all time imo. He banked on MS being an idiot. He could have made JV look a complete tool, instead he stayed true to form.

sunama · 10 Nov 2014 at 16:19

So, the title will be decided in Abu Dhabi.
17 points is the gap.
So, the double points shouldn't effect things massively.
Even without double points, Hamilton would need to go out there and score points.

I think that luck will play a part in Abu Dhabi, as it is just 1 race - winner takes all scenario.
If Hamilton gets a DNF, the title could be lost.

JRS · 10 Nov 2014 at 16:21

sunama said:
If Hamilton gets a DNF, the title could be lost.

Wow, that's profound.

/sarcasm

El_Watcher · 10 Nov 2014 at 16:27

sunama said:
So, the title will be decided in Abu Dhabi.
17 points is the gap.
So, the double points shouldn't effect things massively.

It kind of is.
If Rosberg wins, normally Hamilton finishes 6th to win. Now he has to finish 2nd. That is a difference. :rolleyes:

If Hamilton crashes, normally Rosberg has to finish 2nd to win. Now he has to finish 5th. That is a difference. :rolleyes:

If Rosberg crashes and Hamilton wins, he wins by 67 points, which is way more than how close the season has been :mad:

drunkenmaster · 10 Nov 2014 at 17:14

El_Watcher said:
It kind of is.
If Rosberg wins, normally Hamilton finishes 6th to win. Now he has to finish 2nd. That is a difference.
If Hamilton crashes, normally Rosberg has to finish 2nd to win. Now he has to finish 5th. That is a difference.
If Rosberg crashes and Hamilton wins, he wins by 67 points, which is way more than how close the season has been

The season hasn't been close, as it stands currently ignoring wins when the other driver DNF'd Hamilton won 8 to Rosberg's 3, and then Rosberg to a second when Hamilton DNF'd in Canada while being the faster driver. At no stage has Rosberg passed Hamilton while Hamilton has passed Rosberg repeatedly(making a move stick). Rosberg cheated massively on two occasions, just from those incidents Rosberg gained at least 32 points on Hamilton.

The season hasn't been "close" in terms of drivers, Hamilton has utterly dominated Rosberg, due to the dominance of the cars much worse driver in a Mercedes is still second in most races and 1st in any races Hamilton has a mechanical failure or the odd time he out qualifies Hamilton and makes it stick.
67 point gap would still be small if the DNf's/mechanical failures had been more even(HAmilton has had 2 major failures in qualifying while Rosberg had none) between the drivers and larger still if Rosberg had been punished for or had simply not cheated twice.

smr · 10 Nov 2014 at 17:19

If Rosberg wins the next race then I couldn't care less about double points as he'd have won the last two races of this season which Lewis has declared he is going 'all out gunz blazing for'.... so by his own admission Lewis simply wouldn't have got the job done.

That's my opinion anyway, whoever wins the Championship now deserves it, whether it be Lewis or Nico, gl to them both.

Skeeter · 10 Nov 2014 at 17:23

What if Rosberg wins and Hamilton comes 3rd?

Reaper 392 · 10 Nov 2014 at 17:30

timmeh said:
Brundle said that recently he's been getting more and more convinced that Rosberg's Monaco shenanigans was done on purpose. I wonder what's making him say that now, apart from his obvious Hamilton bias.

Almost certainly the incident at Spa

Duke · 10 Nov 2014 at 19:10

El_Watcher said:
Looking at the accident now, I am amazed they disqualified him for that, when we have seem similar or worse get nothing . In fact, you could almost apportion more blame to Villeneuve for coming from miles behind

Pretty sure that intentionally (and obviously) trying to take out another driver is worthy of a disqualification.

mmj_uk · 10 Nov 2014 at 19:38

El_Watcher said:
Looking at the accident now, I am amazed they disqualified him for that, when we have seem similar or worse get nothing

Drivers were a lot more talented when it came to racing back then, these days there are too many young inexperienced drivers who are fast but lack basic racing skills, compounded by the FIA making rules in recent years that punish defending/racing and introducing go faster buttons so that they can always make simple overtakes down the inside at the end of pre-determined straights.

El_Watcher said:
In fact, you could almost apportion more blame to Villeneuve for coming from miles behind

It was clear as day Schumacher's fault, his instinctive reaction was to turn left and avoid contact but then you see him turn back into Villeneuve. Nowadays, you'd get the likes of Massa just turning into the hairpin regardless as to whether Villeneuve was there or not, because as far as Massa is concerned he is on the racing line and everyone else has to make way for him, then you get the stewards not punishing Massa which just encourages drivers to further hug the racing line even if it causes a collision.

el_dazza · 10 Nov 2014 at 20:13

I think one exception to that is Raikkonen. He is extremely aware of what's going on around him, races very fairly and has insane reactions to avoid collisions.

foster grant · 10 Nov 2014 at 20:18

timmeh said:
It was something he mentioned in commentary during the race.

Yeah I remember that too

smr · 10 Nov 2014 at 20:36

el_dazza said:
I think one exception to that is Raikkonen. He is extremely aware of what's going on around him, races very fairly and has insane reactions to avoid collisions.

Raikonnen has great wheel to wheel combat skills.

drunkenmaster · 10 Nov 2014 at 20:44

smr said:
Raikonnen has great wheel to wheel combat skills.

I think it was the Hamilton up the inside of Kimi who was alongside Alonso iirc, I forget which race, the one where Hamilton was coming from the back of the grid. There is a moment where Alonso pretty much squeezed him on the outside and Hamilton was on the inside. His wheel was in between Alonso's front and rear wheel and he managed to in a split second reaction turn, miss Alonso's rear wheel then turn back in behind him.

It was one of the most impressive pieces of driving I've ever seen, he has pretty epic wheel to wheel driving as you say. I love the guy, feel bad for this year. He doesn't suit the feel of the car at all but then you also have had rumours up and down the grid for years that Massa and now Kimi have purposefully weaker cars than ALonso. I think it was maybe Brundle who mentioned it again recently saying up and down the grid most people believe it's very likely to be true.

TO a degree I think Kimi is being paid to make Alonso look good, as was Massa, proper no.2 drivers. It's another reason along with his more frequent mistakes in the past couple seasons that I'm not convinced ALonso is as good as people think he is. Excellent, yes, but epic, maybe not.

timmeh · 10 Nov 2014 at 21:07

drunkenmaster said:
I think it was the Hamilton up the inside of Kimi who was alongside Alonso iirc, I forget which race, the one where Hamilton was coming from the back of the grid. There is a moment where Alonso pretty much squeezed him on the outside and Hamilton was on the inside. His wheel was in between Alonso's front and rear wheel and he managed to in a split second reaction turn, miss Alonso's rear wheel then turn back in behind him.

It was one of the most impressive pieces of driving I've ever seen, he has pretty epic wheel to wheel driving as you say. I love the guy, feel bad for this year. He doesn't suit the feel of the car at all but then you also have had rumours up and down the grid for years that Massa and now Kimi have purposefully weaker cars than ALonso. I think it was maybe Brundle who mentioned it again recently saying up and down the grid most people believe it's very likely to be true.

TO a degree I think Kimi is being paid to make Alonso look good, as was Massa, proper no.2 drivers. It's another reason along with his more frequent mistakes in the past couple seasons that I'm not convinced ALonso is as good as people think he is. Excellent, yes, but epic, maybe not.

Was it Hockenheim this year?